D&D Wargaming *ARMIES OF EVIL*

[Serpenteye]

Doh! You deleted the post with the details on the shade class.
If you repost that info I'll help you figure out the CR adjust for it.

Hmm, shadows aren't smart enough as the base creature for a spellcaster, but you could start with a CR 4 wraith (+4 Int!) and stack 11 or so wizard levels on top.

Shade (RoF)
Considered outsider type.
Must be nongood alignment.
Have the following powers when within shadows or darkness
+2 Con and Cha
Speed: +20 ft. (or 15 if medium or heavy armor)
AC: +4 deflection
Attacks and Damage: +2 competence bonus on attack and damage
Saves: +4 luck bonus on all saves
Skills: +4 racial on Listen and Spot, +8 racial on Hide and Move Silently, does not suffer skill check penalties due to darkness.
Control Light (Sp)
Fast Healing 2
Invisibility (Sp)
Shadesight (Sp)
Shadow Image (Sp)
Shadow Stride (Sp)
Shadow Travel (Sp)
SR 11 + character level
Level Adjustment: +4, but you can't have this template unless you are at least 5th level.
CR: +2

--

It's not easy to create a new CR for the shade because almost all its powers are usable under very specific circumstances and I don't even know what all the abilities do.

I can't really make him a Wraith because they are incorporeal and cannot use equipment. A Ghost would intrude too much on your niche, and a Lich is too expensive since it requires an 11th level caster and a ton of cash for the phylactery...

 

[Drakknyte32]

My Dragon has equipment. Hence he is level 15.
I will expand on this when Fieari mentions the ruling on the wealth of monsters that are the PCs (see monsters as races in the errata). If I do get that money (337,500gp ) then I will be using it to even better epuip my dragon.

 

[Pyrex]

You don't have equipment. You have treasure and you have funds granted to your army by the Dark Lord.

If you want additional equipment, you have to increase your CR appropriately.
That 337,500gp is exactly how much a 15th lvl character would get if they paid for their equipment as part of their CR.

 

[Fieari]

Quite right. And increasing your CR at this point would put you above your CR cap, so... no. Not until you get more points.

You may be pleased to know (or not) that if you die and the good guys take your hoard as spoils, you can't go to your afterlife, but instead have to wander the earth as a dragon ghost, tormented forever until your hoard is returned. Every single coin of it (or equivelent value). If the hoard is returned, you then settle upon it happily, and vanish... taking the wealth with you to the afterlife.

I'm pretty sure ghostly dragons are weaker than their living counterparts (hard to judge)... but you won't have to sacrifice troops to get a new general, at least.

 

[Drakknyte32]

Alright, no more money. But what about ability scores? Since this is my character and he is unusual for his race he probably would have better ability scores.

And that XP cost still sounds wrong. Would my dragon unarmed be a match for an 18th level PC unarmed? I still say he gains XP as a 15th level character.

The dragon ghost sounds interesting. If that does happen then I'll probably stick around even after I get my treasure just to take vengeance on the armies of good. I have to die first though, so lets just see what happens.

 

[Pyrex]

Better ability scores are one of the perks of beings with PC levels. If/when you gain a PC level you get upgraded from the monster array (11,11,11,10,10,10) to the PC array (15,14,13,12,10,8)

Your dragon is plenty a match for an unequipped 18th level pc.

 

[Pyrex]

Serp, ignoring the abilities we don't have definitions for, here's what I come up with.

(+0    CR) Considered outsider type.
(+0.4  CR) +2 Con and Cha
(+0.14 CR) Speed: +20 ft. (or 15 if medium or heavy armor)
(+0.4  CR) AC: +4 deflection
(+0.25 CR) Attacks: +2 competence bonus
(+0.25 CR) Damage:  +2 competence bonus
(+0.5  CR) Saves: +4 luck bonus on all saves
(+0.24 CR) Skills: +4 racial on Listen and Spot, +8 racial on Hide and Move Silently
(+0.15 CR) Fast Healing 2
(+0.12 CR) Invisibility (Sp, CL 12, at will)
(+1.2  CR) SR 22*

Total: +3.65CR

(-0.65 CR) Bonuses are lost in bright light

Total2: +3.00CR

 

[Dalamar]

Again, here is my draft for a leader, is he acceptable Fieari? I made some changes from the last draft.

Master Ghalarasser the Terrible, Leader of the Lich King's demonic armies
Medium Outsider (Chaotic, Evil, Extraplanar, Tanar'ri) (+1.9 CR)
Hit Dice: 10d8+32 (+7.0 CR)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 30ft (6 squares) (+0 CR)
Armor Class: 21 (+3 Dex, +4 Armor, +2 Natural Armor, +2 Enhancement bonus to Natural Armor), Flat-footed 18, Touch 17 (+0.2 CR)
Base Attack/Grapple: +10/+5 /+15
Attack: +1 Adamantine Greatsword +17 melee (2d6+8, 19-20/x2)
Full Attack: +1 Adamantine Greatsword +17/+12 melee (2d6+8, 19-20/x2) (+1.05 CR)
Special Attacks: Frightful Presence, Spells, Spell-like Abilities (+3.955CR)
Special Qualities: Damage Reduction 5/Cold Iron and Good, Darkvision 60ft, Fast Healing 5, Immunity to Electricity, Immunity to Poison, Resistance to Acid 10, Cold 10, Fire 10, Telepathy, (+1.625 CR +subtype cost)
Saves: Fort +11, Ref +10, Will +10
Abilities: Str 16(20), Dex 17, Con 14(18), Int 13, Wis 16, Cha 17 (+3 CR)
Skills: Climb(c) +16, Concentration(c) +15, Diplomacy(c) +16, Hide +3, Intimidate(c) +16, Jump(c) +16, Knowledge (History)(c) +14, Knowledge (the Planes)(c) +14, Listen +3, Move Silently +3, Sense Motive(c) +16, Spot(c) +16
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Improved Bullrush, Weapon Focus (Greatsword)
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Challenge Rating: Total 18.73, Golden Rule 16.365, Silver Rule 13

Evil and Chaotic subtypes: Ghalarasser's natural weapons, as well as any weapon he attacks with, are treated as Evil and Chaotic for the purposes of penetrating Damage Reduction
Frightful Presence: When Master Ghalarasser performs a dramatic action (such as charging, attacking, or snarling), creatures withing 30ft who can see him, and have 8 HD or less, must make a Will save DC 18 or become shaken for 5d6 rounds. The save DC is Charisma-based.
Spells: Ghalarasser casts spells as a 5th-level cleric, and has the domains Evil and Destruction
Spell-like Abilities: At Will - Greater Command (DC 18), Greater Teleport, Dispel Good, Divine Favor, Magic Circle Against Good (DC 16), Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds (DC 19). Caster level 13, DCs Cha-based.

Equipment, 45,350 gp (7,683 level equipment (+ 1.537 CR))
Amulet of Natural Armor +2 (8,000 gp), +1 Adamantine Greatsword (5,350 gp), Belt of Giant Strength +4 (16,000 gp), Bracers of Armor +4 (16,000 gp)

Changes: SLAs changed, lost Unholy Aura

 

[Serpenteye]

Serp, ignoring the abilities we don't have definitions for, here's what I come up with.

(+0    CR) Considered outsider type.
(+0.4  CR) +2 Con and Cha
(+0.14 CR) Speed: +20 ft. (or 15 if medium or heavy armor)
(+0.4  CR) AC: +4 deflection
(+0.25 CR) Attacks: +2 competence bonus
(+0.25 CR) Damage:  +2 competence bonus
(+0.5  CR) Saves: +4 luck bonus on all saves
(+0.24 CR) Skills: +4 racial on Listen and Spot, +8 racial on Hide and Move Silently
(+0.15 CR) Fast Healing 2
(+0.12 CR) Invisibility (Sp, CL 12, at will)
(+1.2  CR) SR 22*

Total: +3.65CR

(-0.65 CR) Bonuses are lost in bright light

Total2: +3.00CR

That's looking a bit expensive, though I'm sure you are correct. The cr-reduction from the lost bonuses seems low, and as a spellcaster he'll have little to no use for the increases to hit and to damage... The special abilities are nice, but partially overlap with his spellcasting and will make the package more expensive. Hmm, perhaps I should consider other options.
Thanks for the analysis, though.

 

[Pyrex]

I picked a semi-random number for the CR reduction, but it doesn't make sense to reduce it too much more because you're pretty much always going to be in a shadowy area.

Some of the other abilities are very powerful and will add quite a bit more CR. You might want to consider either another template or a different base creature...