D&D Wargaming *ARMIES OF GOOD*

[Tyreus]

Here's what I've come up with. I have made the suggested changes. Their just like constructs, only they have a constitution, reflecting the fact that they used to be human. Have added war mage for range attacks.

War Machine
Medium Augmented Humaniod
Hit Dice: 2d10 (31 hp)
Initiative: +0 (+0 Dex)
Speed: 30 feet, fly 60 ft clumsy
Armor Class: 20 (+0 Dex, +6 natural, +4 armor)
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+5
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Attacks: +5 greatsword, 2d6+6
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: construct traits, damage reduction 5/adamantine, fast healing 1, greater teleport 2/day
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +0
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 8
Skills: Craft(weapons) +6, Craft(armor) +2
CR 2 (4 pts)

type +0.5*
abilities +0.6
natural armor +0.6
flight, clumsy, 60 ft +0.2
fast healing 1 +0.075
2 HD +1.1
greater teleport 2/day +0.182
damage reduction +0.25
3.507

*This creature has a constitution

War Mage
Medium Augmented Humaniod
Hit Dice: 5d10 (52 hp)
Initiative: +0 (+0 Dex)
Speed: 30 feet, fly 60 ft clumsy
Armor Class: 10 (+0 Dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+3
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: fire ball at will CL 5
Special Qualities: construct traits, fast healing 1, damage reduction 5/adamantine, greater teleport 2/day
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +2, Will +2
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Craft(weapons) +8, Craft(armor) +8
CR 2 (4 pts)

type +0.5*
greater teleport 2/day +0.182
fast healing 1 +0.075
damage reduction +0.25
flight, clumsy, 60 ft +0.2
5 HD 2.25
fire ball at will 0.075
3.532

*This creature has a constitution

 

[Tyreus]

Moved to appropriate thread.

 

[Bibliophile]

It's not impatience, it's reminding me to look back at older stuff I skipped because the blasted assasination attempt stole eight hours of my life away

I assume this is what you refer to:How about I add a small wooded island to the middle of Feather Lake... about 6 miles in diameter. Fortress as you described in the middle of it all. That works for me... you'll want forbiddance, of course.

Actually... I'm going to make Forbiddance MANDATORY for all strongholds from now on. Everyone MUST have it. I can't handle another assasination attempt in the middle of a fortress like that! I just can't do it!

Could you increase the size of the island a bit? Maybe, say 10 miles in diameter? That'd be good

 

[Wrahn]

Can the free 150,000gp include the scroll of Genesis for my "Fortress"? (BTW Genesis is included in the SRD on the WotC site, it is the last entry under epic spells, but don't worry, it is not an epic spell).

If that is the case, it will free up some 50,000gps from my equipment. Have to consider what to do with that.

 

[Carnifex]

Around 150,000gp of your fortress is given for free. As long as you aren't to extravagant, you shouldn't need more.

Cool, this frees up a little of my cash to play with if I can put the forbiddance and lead costs into that 150,000gp. I'll go back and edit the most recent version of the army that I put up - maybe my bossman's axe will get a little upgrade

 

[Tyreus]

Does the construct have any mistakes, or is it too powerful? Fieari: Would the troops be willing to do this?

 

[Wrahn]

Imagine for a moment that you and three of your friends are walking into towards a cave where there have been odd reports of something. The village elders came to you because you and your friends handled that pack of kobolds and they think you can pretty much handle this.

Silently creeping up to the cave suddenly some vaguely humanoid thing comes rumbling out. Jimmy, the ranger lets fly with an arrow which scores a blow, but doesn't seem to harm the creature at all, you pull your battle axe (masterwork even) charging the creature, raging, striking at it with all your might, your axe striking home with a tremendous clang, putting a small crease in it's armor. Glavax, the hedge wizard apprentice let's loose with a magic missiile which stikes home blackening it's armor where it hit. Ted, the accolyte from the temple of the war god strike with his diety's weapon of prefernce sliding off the things incredibly tough armor.

Then to you horror all the wounds you previously inflicted disappear, it looks at you with it's empty eyes and a horrible sonic wail, killing all of you.

You stare at the game master as he recounts the 48 damage from the maximized breath weapon. "Sorry guys, but the book said it was challenge rating 2."

===

Sorry for the melodrama, the very idea that that is CR2 seems preposterous, but that isn't your problem, it is the systems.

Forgive my ignorance, but why do they have 30 HP and I didn't think constructs got feats.

 

[Carnifex]

Here's what I've come up with. I had a different kind, but it was much too powerful. (summon CR 10 2/day, disintigrate 2/day, fireball CL 10 at will, plus all the abilities of this one, except breath weapon) I can afford to buy 137 of them. They are a solid mobile force and the fast healing keeping them alive for the next battle. I still have a problem with them being so vulnerable to magic, but maybe my army fund can fix that.

War Machine (4 pts each)
Medium Construct
Hit Dice: 1d10 (30 hp)
Initiative: +0 (+0 Dex)
Speed: 30 feet, fly 120 ft average
Armor Class: 10 (+0 Dex)
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+0
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: breath weapon 8d6 sonic, 30 ft cone
Special Qualities: Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine, fast healing 5, greater teleport 2/day, Blindsense
Feats: Maximize Breath
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +0, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con -, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 10
base points//golden rule//silver rule//rounded: 6.107//5.207//2.977975//2.0

type +2.4
flight, average, 120 ft +0.8
breath weapon, 8d6 sonic, no delay, 30 ft +1.2
fast healing 5 +0.375
1 HD +0.45
greater teleport 2/day +0.182
damage reduction +0.5
blind sense +0.2
6.107

Well, looking at what you've got there - I think there's a minor miscalc since aren't hit dice .35 each, not .45?

Anyway, after Silver Rule I get this coming out as CR 2.7, but that's still insanely low for a montrosity like this one This is an example of the system breaking down at low levels due to the incredibly cheap cost of adding special abilities to low HD creatures.

To paraphrase some of the design parameters from U_K's CR document (they're at the end - and theya re *just* parameters, guidelines, not set in stone but definitely still worthy of consideration):

- Damage dealt by a breath weapon should be equal to or less than 1 die per HD the creature possesses.

These 1HD guys should not really have a breath weapon of more than 1d6, in other words. Their current breath weapon is insanely powerful, especially once per round - what is it supposed to represent? Do they actually belch noise at their foes, or is it some other kind of integrated weapon? I would recommend you increase the base HD of the construct and bring the breath weapon no. of dice in line with that (so probably 2-3d6 for low-level grunt troops).

- Damage reduction should be equal or less than 1 point per two HD, rounding up to the nearest 5.

In other words these guys should have a max of DR 5 - DR 10 is way too much. I'd also say that DR/adamantine is over the top. I'd recommend either DR/magic or turning the DR into hardness as they are constructs after all.

- Fast Healing should be equal to or less than 1 point per HD the creature possesses.

So these guys should have 1 point of fast healing. 5 is far too much, if you want more I'd suggest you up the HD to come in line with a higher number. Why do these things have fast healing at all - what is the rationale behind this?

- Spell-Like Ability Parameters - Caster level should be equal to or less than HD, Total number of spell-like abilities should be equal to or less than HD, Highest-Level spell-like abilities should only function 1/day.

So this fella shouldn't really get Greater Teleport at all, and then only 1/day anyway. OTOH, this is the bit of the creature that I think is least out of line, since some low-level outsiders possess this ability at will. But how do these constructs possess this power, and why?

I don't want to come off as too harsh here - just want to make you think a bit more about why these guys possess the powers that they do, and as I said the parameters are just guidelines, but I think as it stands at the mo the construct is way too powerful. What I'd recommend is that you add 1 or 2 HD and bring the other powers in line with the new number of HD, then maybe add on some minor elemental resistances if the CR is still available, to help protect them from spells more effectively.


@ Wrahn - constructs get bonus hp. A medium-sized one gets 20 bonus hence the 30hp of this fella.

 

[Tyreus]

Wrahn: Ok, I see the point...

If I'm correct, all golems get fast healing.

The breath weapon is like other golems breath weapon.

They possess the spell like abilities because thats what Zan wanted them to have.

I will make the changes. Sorry if it seems silly that I made them and then asked if they're too powerful, I am a bad judge of things like this.

 

[Wrahn]

Wrahn: Ok, I see the point...

If I'm correct, all golems get fast healing.

The breath weapon is like other golems breath weapon.

They possess the spell like abilities because thats what Zan wanted them to have.

I will make the changes. Sorry if it seems silly that I made them and then asked if they're too powerful, I am a bad judge of things like this.

I am not really faulting you, The immediate thing that popped into my mind was if I were second level do I think I would have any chance at all of beating this thing. From my post above, you can probably figure out my conclusion. Yet this is a wargame, kids gloves are off, so I am not faulting you in the least.

I looked up the constructs and the do indeed get bonus hit points, on the other hand mosters do not get max HP at 1st level, his HP should be 25, unless we have house ruled this someplace.

Also I think it is mindless constructs that don't get feats, so you are correct, they also have 8 skill points to spend.