D20 Modern in 2007?

[eyebeams]

Three words back at you:

Go.

LARP.

Yourself.

It really isn't 1996 any more.

 

[jezter6]

I sometimes wonder if this is the problem with WOTC Modern books. Just fliping through them they seem small and, as a result, maybe folks think they are somewhat incomplete. This may be incorrect, but its' about perception.

After recently fliping through a Modern book I though, "thats it...there has to be more than this." I haven't read through the book so that impression is most likely wrong, but that was my first impression; first impressions being important when folks choose between a Modern book and several other flashy titles on the selves or the other books listed in the same category on the website store.

Am I on any kind of track here or have I derailed? :\

You're on it. Aside from d20 Future, all the books are kind of flimsy and incomplete. They give you a couple of campaign models, but just enough to make you want more and angry you didn't get enough. Really...7 pages just aint enough to really get a model going. I'd rather see 2 models get 20-30 pages each than 4 or 5 getting less than 10.

 

[jezter6]

It really isn't 1996 any more.

Can't make a good natured joke (including the fact that I SAID I was just joking) anymore? The critics are harsh around here. Besides, we WERE talking about WoD.

 

[eyebeams]

I don't think there is any question that WoD is a setting. Campaign books, faction guides, region splats, bestiaries, scenario books, novels, a failed TV series... that says "setting" to me.

The current core WoD is a campaign model. The individual lines have settings, but the core WoD is specifically designed to have very few hard and fast rules about the nature of the supernatural. In the old games, any given thing needed to link back into Vampire, Mage or whatever setting rationales, but something like the Empty Room in Mysterious Places just *is*.

But unlike D20 Modern, the core WoD has a core story: Characters stumble across hints of the supernatural, investigate it more closely and are finally confronted with powerful, traumatic evidence. The book tells you run run that story and the supplements are all ways to run it.

D20 Modern doesn't have an "out of the box" way to play like dungeoneering or investigation. It doesn't do the contemporary action genre of two gun mojo, spray and pray and dynamic martial arts very well, either, so the basic question is, "What the hell is it for?" That's not demanding "hand holding," but some justification for the game that isn't the d20 logo.

 

[eyebeams]

That's not how many gamers perceive it before they crack open the book to look inside.

Did they expect there to be *no* D&D critters and magic, despite the core plainly saying otherwise?

 

[eyebeams]

Can't make a good natured joke (including the fact that I SAID I was just joking) anymore? The critics are harsh around here. Besides, we WERE talking about WoD.

Thing is, live action really *was* much bigger then than it is now. It's still quite significant, but there are many people who can't stand the idea that people play WoD games around a table who still trot this one out *without* joking, despite the fact that MET just can't carry a line like that any more.

 

[Ranger REG]

Did they expect there to be *no* D&D critters and magic, despite the core plainly saying otherwise?

They also believe the core rulebook's introduction is in error.

How we attracted this kind of lover-hater fans boggles my almost sane mind. To them, "F" is a dirty word. To me, "R" is a dirty word.

 

[Wolv0rine]

I dunno, I think there are a number of things that change it from a campaign 'model' (IMHO) and a full blown setting.

(I'm going to snip the rest, because I only do writing & art chores on YotZ)
YotZ (while awesome) is same Earth, with some zombies. Neat and all - but doesn't fit me for a 'setting.'
I think it's the number of different twists that make it so. Maybe - 3 big twists and it's suddenly a setting? Hard to put a number on it, but it certainly make sure that big changes are made from your standard Earth feel.

I can't speak for the rest of the settings you listed, because I only really know this one. But as far as YotZ goes, it's not just "the real world... with zombies! YotZ starts with teh world we know, and then meticulously destroys it. When towns and cities still stand, but aren't towns or cities anymore (save for the teeming masses of walking dead flesh that fil them) is the map the same? When a major prison becomes a major 'town', and small settlements rise from wherever people can build them... has the map changed?
Granted, YotZ doesn't Give a map... we don't say where these things are exactly, because every GM's Rising could (and should) happen slightly differently. The people of his game should react in their own ways to the end of what used to be the world. But the basic paradigm has shifted enough that I think even by your stated parameters it's a setting. By your full qualifications maybe only barely, but still.

Bring on Mr. Hungry, this thread's getting fat!

 

[buzz]

The current core WoD is a campaign model. The individual lines have settings, but the core WoD is specifically designed to have very few hard and fast rules about the nature of the supernatural. In the old games, any given thing needed to link back into Vampire, Mage or whatever setting rationales, but something like the Empty Room in Mysterious Places just *is*.

Gotcha. I had the various lines in mind when I made my statements, and was also thinking back to oWoD (or whatever the abbreviation is for pre-nWoD).

And yeah, from what I've seen, even the core nWoD book (and the "generic" supplements) has an assumed "default mode" that d20M does not, i.e., horror investigation.

Granted, I admit that I'd have preferred if the core d20M books had had even less campaign-specific info. As it is, it's sort of a core ruleset plus half of the UrA setting toolkit. I.e., I'd love to have d20M core be just "modern action" with some hints at core FX principles, and then one or more flagship lines building off of it.

 

[Prest0]

Granted, I admit that I'd have preferred if the core d20M books had had even less campaign-specific info. As it is, it's sort of a core ruleset plus half of the UrA setting toolkit. I.e., I'd love to have d20M core be just "modern action" with some hints at core FX principles, and then one or more flagship lines building off of it.

I have to agree. I'm sure it would have had a lot of fans howling, but as far as I'm concerned the D&D magic system isn't the best choice for a modern setting. The d20 Cthulhu system is much more to my liking. (Of course, I have my horror biases.) But I'd rather have seen a separate "Modern Arcana" book with four of five FX/magic systems for different types of settings, all sharing a common spell compendium. That way "D&D Modern" wouldn't have been the default.

In retrospect, WotC probably should have come out with a True20-style "Worlds of Adventure" campaign setting book right on the heels of d20M's release. I think that would have done more for the system than a generic default. Green Ronin took the opposite path and looked for unique settings that showed the versatility of their system. Compare Blood Throne to Razor in the Apple. The settings in the d20M book, while each have potential to make for kick-ass games, are whitewashed of any real character.