D20 Wuxia
- Thread starter teitan
- Start date
Action Point system
I'm sorry, no offense to Jeph, but that really read like stereo instructions...I guess not entirely bad considering we're trying to make Japanese anime and "live-action anime" work in D&D.
Rereading it I think it could be made to work, ,but it still seems like a touch too much work to emulate something that would probably work fine by crossing the Monk and Psychic Warrior and using the Psionic feats
teitan said:
I'm sorry, no offense to Jeph, but that really read like stereo instructions...I guess not entirely bad considering we're trying to make Japanese anime and "live-action anime" work in D&D.
Rereading it I think it could be made to work, ,but it still seems like a touch too much work to emulate something that would probably work fine by crossing the Monk and Psychic Warrior and using the Psionic feats
Morgenstern
First Post
Not yet, but soon...
The Pan Asian Collective is Spycraft's anime/espionage supliment, and there are tons of wuxia inspired classes, feats (40 of them!!), and psionic abilites in there. My favorite part of the Martial Artist base class in that book is that they gain reach at higher levels- allowing them to kick pots and punch boards at their foes ala Iron Monkey and deliver their melee attacks from just a bit further away. 'Course they get the class ability 'wuxia' at 6th, 12th, and 18th level, so the genre was definitely on my mind 
... Should be out in January or early February.
...And it includes a modern day Huang Fei Hong and his students
The Pan Asian Collective is Spycraft's anime/espionage supliment, and there are tons of wuxia inspired classes, feats (40 of them!!), and psionic abilites in there. My favorite part of the Martial Artist base class in that book is that they gain reach at higher levels- allowing them to kick pots and punch boards at their foes ala Iron Monkey and deliver their melee attacks from just a bit further away
. 'Course they get the class ability 'wuxia' at 6th, 12th, and 18th level, so the genre was definitely on my mind ... Should be out in January or early February. ...And it includes a modern day Huang Fei Hong and his students
Voadam
Legend
Re: Re: Wuxia in d20
Got it, I like the class, I'm not so sure yet whether it is unbalanced compared to a fighter, though. They give up one step on the hit dice and all the armor proficiencies but gain the feats, BAB, of that class and better saves, skills and the uncanny dodge progression.
hong said:
Personally, if you want wuxia schtuff, I would recommend getting the latest Asgard mag (issue 7 as of this date) which has a martial artist class designed by (cough) yours truly.Or you can get it from my D&D page as well; see sig.
Got it, I like the class, I'm not so sure yet whether it is unbalanced compared to a fighter, though. They give up one step on the hit dice and all the armor proficiencies but gain the feats, BAB, of that class and better saves, skills and the uncanny dodge progression.
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Re: Re: Re: Wuxia in d20
FWIW, I've played a few MA characters up to fairly high levels, and so far they don't seem unbalanced. The class is sorta like a fighter/monk cross, and retains some of the drawbacks of the latter: dependence on good stats (you typically need good Str, Dex, Con and Wis), relatively low hit points for a fighting class, and not quite as much damage-dealing capacity. You can be very mobile with the right feats, but at high levels everyone can do that anyway with magic.
The 13th level archer I have right now seems to be kicking butt more than the fighter, but that could just be due to feat/prestige class selection. I have a zen archer PrC (see it here) and he's a master of chains, which isn't a notably uber class. I also have an honorable bow (+2d6 damage vs evil, basically) which helps. Plus I reckon melee types get teh shaft in high-level 3E, overall: it doesn't matter what class you are, you don't want to stand next to things that can energy drain, improved grab or swallow whole.
I also had a couple of melee MAs earlier on, and in smackdown terms, I don't think they were anything special. The first one died ignominiously in battle against Lareth the Beautiful in the RttToEE, when he cast confusion on the party and our wizard proceeded to fireball the lot of us. The second one was aiming for the blade dancer PrC and could jump all over the place, but she wasn't overwhelmingly powerful. She had her memorable moments, but so did everyone else.
Finally, IIRC Kaeyoss ran the class through the Class Construction Engine, and it came out okay.
Although one might do well to keep in mind Hong's First Law, which is that everyone underestimates the potential of their favourite class.
Voadam said:
FWIW, I've played a few MA characters up to fairly high levels, and so far they don't seem unbalanced. The class is sorta like a fighter/monk cross, and retains some of the drawbacks of the latter: dependence on good stats (you typically need good Str, Dex, Con and Wis), relatively low hit points for a fighting class, and not quite as much damage-dealing capacity. You can be very mobile with the right feats, but at high levels everyone can do that anyway with magic.
The 13th level archer I have right now seems to be kicking butt more than the fighter, but that could just be due to feat/prestige class selection. I have a zen archer PrC (see it here) and he's a master of chains, which isn't a notably uber class. I also have an honorable bow (+2d6 damage vs evil, basically) which helps. Plus I reckon melee types get teh shaft in high-level 3E, overall: it doesn't matter what class you are, you don't want to stand next to things that can energy drain, improved grab or swallow whole.
I also had a couple of melee MAs earlier on, and in smackdown terms, I don't think they were anything special. The first one died ignominiously in battle against Lareth the Beautiful in the RttToEE, when he cast confusion on the party and our wizard proceeded to fireball the lot of us. The second one was aiming for the blade dancer PrC and could jump all over the place, but she wasn't overwhelmingly powerful. She had her memorable moments, but so did everyone else.
Finally, IIRC Kaeyoss ran the class through the Class Construction Engine, and it came out okay.
Although one might do well to keep in mind Hong's First Law, which is that everyone underestimates the potential of their favourite class.
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Wuxia in d20
IMHO, the class construction engine is basically crap. It sais that +1d6 sneak attack damage is about 1/5 as good as a bonus feat. And guess what? +1d6 sneak attack damage is an EPIC FEAT. Also, it rates metamagic/item creation/psionic feats as being twice as good as normal ones. Um, no. Maybe one and a third, definitely not twice.
Right, got that off my chest. Now for the useful advice: again, I stress Psionics over magic. use some form of action points, feel free to ignore my sterio instructions ( ). For critique on Hong's MA, I say drop the feat progression to as the Psychic Warrior, and then it's a bit more balanced. Just my two cents,
-Jeph.
hong said:
IMHO, the class construction engine is basically crap. It sais that +1d6 sneak attack damage is about 1/5 as good as a bonus feat. And guess what? +1d6 sneak attack damage is an EPIC FEAT. Also, it rates metamagic/item creation/psionic feats as being twice as good as normal ones. Um, no. Maybe one and a third, definitely not twice.
Right, got that off my chest.
Now for the useful advice: again, I stress Psionics over magic. use some form of action points, feel free to ignore my sterio instructions ( ). For critique on Hong's MA, I say drop the feat progression to as the Psychic Warrior, and then it's a bit more balanced. Just my two cents, -Jeph.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wuxia in d20
I guess that must mean that rogues are epic, hmm? The player of the rogue in my campaign (who, last session, sat out one battle while held, and went unconscious in another) will be chuffed to hear that.
The reason sneak attack is an epic feat is because it's a class-exclusive ability. If you let everyone take it, you're taking away the rogue's schtick, and one of the few ways they can really contribute in battle. And if anything, I've seen enough wonky situations and broken results from the ELH to tell me its crunchy bits are rather mushy, to say the least.
Twice is perhaps on the high side, but still reasonable if you know how to exploit these feats.
Jeph said:
I guess that must mean that rogues are epic, hmm? The player of the rogue in my campaign (who, last session, sat out one battle while held, and went unconscious in another) will be chuffed to hear that.
The reason sneak attack is an epic feat is because it's a class-exclusive ability. If you let everyone take it, you're taking away the rogue's schtick, and one of the few ways they can really contribute in battle. And if anything, I've seen enough wonky situations and broken results from the ELH to tell me its crunchy bits are rather mushy, to say the least.
Twice is perhaps on the high side, but still reasonable if you know how to exploit these feats.
Chow Yun Fett
First Post
Dragon Fist d20!!!!
As Morrus has posted on the main page :
Dragon Fist press release
That's news worthy of celebration!
Too bad it won't be coming sooner.
I still plan on picking up the Quintessential Monk in the mean time.
As Morrus has posted on the main page :
Dragon Fist press release
That's news worthy of celebration!
Too bad it won't be coming sooner.
I still plan on picking up the Quintessential Monk in the mean time.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Wuxia in d20
Not just anyone can take Improved Sneak Attack. In fact, you have to have at least 15 rogue levels to get it. It has a prereq of Sneak Attack 8d6.
Really, I'm not trying to be argumental. I just think that the CCE could use a little . . . well, a total remake.
/me scurries of to read dragonfist press release.
hong said:
Not just anyone can take Improved Sneak Attack. In fact, you have to have at least 15 rogue levels to get it. It has a prereq of Sneak Attack 8d6.
Really, I'm not trying to be argumental. I just think that the CCE could use a little . . . well, a total remake.
/me scurries of to read dragonfist press release.
Victim
First Post
I agree regarding the CCE. When the Monk and Bard require the 2 most points, something is probably wrong. I'd probably say that each sneak attack die is about as good as a bonus feat, since each one is about equal to specialization. Sneak attack does more average damage, but is random and has a number of situation weakness.
I'd just build wuxia type characters as normal, but with an emphasis on dex. However, I haven't seen them carrying around a cart load of trinkets. Therefore, I'd buy most of their abilities as no space, inherent items at double cost. Then it's really cheap to get bonus jumping and movement. It's also simple. You don't have to make every character a 5th level psychic warrior that spends a bunch of feats to be able to run on walls or perform incredible leaps. IHMO, that forces most characters into to being too much alike and using too much resources for the ability.
I'd just build wuxia type characters as normal, but with an emphasis on dex. However, I haven't seen them carrying around a cart load of trinkets. Therefore, I'd buy most of their abilities as no space, inherent items at double cost. Then it's really cheap to get bonus jumping and movement. It's also simple. You don't have to make every character a 5th level psychic warrior that spends a bunch of feats to be able to run on walls or perform incredible leaps. IHMO, that forces most characters into to being too much alike and using too much resources for the ability.
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