Aldarc
Legend
Any time Rob Donoghue talks about RPG design, I shut up and listen.
Daggerheart General Thread [+]
- Thread starter overgeeked
- Start date
Reynard
aka Ian Eller
I was a little shocked to discover that DH fans were almost as volatile as Star Wars fans.
chuckdee
Adventurer
I was curious so watched it. It wasn't bashing on DH. In fact, it's the opposite. It's just going into the financial sense of continuing with D&D, and after hearing the numbers of what they make from Wizards/Hasbro... yeah, I'd make that decision too.
It comes down to the fact that CR is an advertising medium for Wizards, and they pay a lot for that privilege - in the millions. Selling books doesn't make as much as they do from Wizards, so cutting them off now would be removing a major form of revenue.
Wolfram stout
Hero
I wish I was smart enough and driven enough to make an awesome rpg that is getting a lot of buzz while at the same time getting money from WOTC to play D&D.
I don't care if it is ads or sponsorships or whatever that is just living the dream. And they seem genuinely good folks to boot.
I don't care if it is ads or sponsorships or whatever that is just living the dream. And they seem genuinely good folks to boot.
Ruin Explorer
Legend
I mean, D&D fans are at least that volatile, so I'm surprised this was surprising! I guess it surprised you because the others have had decades? But volatile fans is something that can instantly coalesce in basically seconds, just look at the fandoms of say, Steven Universe, or god help us all, the BBC Sherlock TV series. Like, Steven Universe is this show about, essentially, being nice to people and how it's important to understand people and people are different and communication matters, and it's fanbase was just absolutely rabid, like embodying nothing about the show. Trek fans are weirdly less aggro than those others but they used to be more aggro - I remember how aggro they were in say, 1993 or 1996 on the early internet, especially old TOS fans still kind of mad about TNG/DS9 (that was a thing a lol). I don't know what caused them to calm down, maybe long years in the wilderness? I suspect SNW probably has a pretty rabid fanbase (of people who that is the first or main Trek show they've seen) but they're diluted by being mixed in with a much larger pool of "Trekkies".
I think at this point we just have to roll our collective eyes at this kind of stuff, and accept maybe it just means people care? I dunno lol.
Kichwas
Half-breed
Just a clickbait title.
Folks may hate that but if you don't clickbait your title YouTube sends your visibility off to Gitmo - even for your subscribers.
If I see "OMG the world just ended" as a YouTube title, I check the name. If I know they're not insane, I'll watch it. And that guy isn't insane. I don't always agree with him, but he's rational. He just has to play by YouTube's stupid rules now. His videos, like everyone else's, have gotten insane in the titles and thumbnails. But his content hasn't. There ARE folks who's content has. But he isn't one of them.
Kichwas
Half-breed
That said, I am very "let down" by the move to not use DH for their main show.
As I've said elsewhere, we learned we're the sidechick. We always knew, but now it's just out there.
It will take a lot of the steam out of DH's momentum to see that it's own publisher mainly focuses elsewhere, even as they've not abandoned it.
As for CR, I won't watch it. Not in "retaliation", but because watching actual plays of D&D and Pathfinder and games like them bores me. Listening to them as podcasts has almost caused me to wreck my car from falling asleep when I wasn't even tired...
That very same cast playing DH is what sold me on the game. They just seemed much more engaged and alive when playing DH. And I've gone on to watch and listen to actual plays and podcasts of DH and 'Mist Engine' games (Otherscape and Legend in the Mist) and those keep me engaged. Casts get more in tune with story with narrative games. With the boardgame-RPGs like D&D and Pathfinder they spend a lot of time fiddling with mechanics and examining tactical grids.
I might watch their DH stuff when they do it. Some of their new DH one shots with guest casts showing off unique campaign frames have been very good.
But I'm not a fan of the main cast. Not an anti-fan either. They never grew on me because I'm not a D&D person. They were starting to when I saw them play DH, but I'd consider them my third favorite DH show - behind Dodoborne and Role of the Dice.
I wish they'd put DH as front and used D&D for the off-night events because I want the hype for DH to turn into a long term sustained thing. I get the financial reasons why otherwise happened. But that's not what I care about, I care about what I enjoy.
So it is what it is, and I move on. If DH survives past it's hyper stage I'll be happy. But I'll always wish it could have been bigger than where it eventually lands after all of this - and even if I'm wrong in the long run, I will "feel" like this news stunted it.
As I've said elsewhere, we learned we're the sidechick. We always knew, but now it's just out there.
It will take a lot of the steam out of DH's momentum to see that it's own publisher mainly focuses elsewhere, even as they've not abandoned it.
As for CR, I won't watch it. Not in "retaliation", but because watching actual plays of D&D and Pathfinder and games like them bores me. Listening to them as podcasts has almost caused me to wreck my car from falling asleep when I wasn't even tired...
That very same cast playing DH is what sold me on the game. They just seemed much more engaged and alive when playing DH. And I've gone on to watch and listen to actual plays and podcasts of DH and 'Mist Engine' games (Otherscape and Legend in the Mist) and those keep me engaged. Casts get more in tune with story with narrative games. With the boardgame-RPGs like D&D and Pathfinder they spend a lot of time fiddling with mechanics and examining tactical grids.
I might watch their DH stuff when they do it. Some of their new DH one shots with guest casts showing off unique campaign frames have been very good.
But I'm not a fan of the main cast. Not an anti-fan either. They never grew on me because I'm not a D&D person. They were starting to when I saw them play DH, but I'd consider them my third favorite DH show - behind Dodoborne and Role of the Dice.
I wish they'd put DH as front and used D&D for the off-night events because I want the hype for DH to turn into a long term sustained thing. I get the financial reasons why otherwise happened. But that's not what I care about, I care about what I enjoy.
So it is what it is, and I move on. If DH survives past it's hyper stage I'll be happy. But I'll always wish it could have been bigger than where it eventually lands after all of this - and even if I'm wrong in the long run, I will "feel" like this news stunted it.
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
I think this is the key. There are a lot of folks who don't like clickbait, and attack it whenever they can. But do any of them have successful YouTube channels to the point where that's their career? No. They don't. I don't like clickbait content, and in fact have no time for it at all. But if someone has to use a title so that I will even see their content (despite doing everything possible to tell YouTube I want to), then I'll take it.
What bothers me are the YouTubers who have both a title for their video and then content that turns out to be clickbait. And thankfully, there haven't been that many of them for DaggerHeart (or maybe I've just filtered them out...)
Like everyone else, I'm disappointed that CR isn't going with DaggerHeart for their core show, but there's been a bunch of good content as to the financial reasons why. And I'm going to continue to support the game, to keep pushing my groups to play it because it looks fun. I suspect that when the latest campaign clears up at the end, CR will be able to look at the financials, and they'll be different. But still, as long as the game continues to be supported, I'm going to stay with it.
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