Damage Reduction vs. Two Weapon Fighting

[Ridley's Cohort]

I think Ranger-Wickett's got it pretty close, although I'm not so sure where the shield adjustment came from?

I think the point is if you boost TWF to be competitive with THF, sword & board becomes the neglected child.

I think that the change to PA was appropriate with respect to THF, but I did not see the necessity to prevent light weapons from using it.

 

[two]

I just hate

i just hate how you need to design a two-weapon character with great care and sophistication, making sure to do absolutely everything right, picking the right classes, weapons, and feats, maximizing your brains out --

Just to KEEP UP with the 12 year old kid who is a Barbarian10 and a powerattacking with the GreatSword regularly.

It just ain't fair -- it ain't.

 

[AeroDm]

That would be basic penalties of -4/-8, reduced by 2 if the off-hand weapon is light, to be more consistent with the current system.

And you probably mean "one-handed weapon" rather than "medium weapon" anyway.



I think I see the problem

-Hyp.

I like you, Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

I like you, Hyp.

Uh... thank you?

-Hyp.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I think Ranger-Wickett's got it pretty close, although I'm not so sure where the shield adjustment came from?

I think he got it from my website http://www.starguild.freeserve.co.uk/frp/3ednd_combat.htm

(Only kidding, RW. Clearly a case of parallel evolution, both lists are based on the cover bonus chart from 3.0e)

 

[Plane Sailing]

My vote for the simplest balancing factor?

1) make TWF a free option for everyone, alongside 2HF and S&B.

Thus we don't have people expending even one feat on a marginally sub-optimal tactic. It would be merely a stylistic issue.

The only problem that I see with this is actually with the implementation of sneak attack - which makes TWF insanely good for sneak attackers. I'd probably allow sneak attacks to be used with iterative attacks but not with off-hand attacks.

 

[The Souljourner]

My vote for the simplest balancing factor?

1) make TWF a free option for everyone, alongside 2HF and S&B.

Thus we don't have people expending even one feat on a marginally sub-optimal tactic. It would be merely a stylistic issue.

The only problem that I see with this is actually with the implementation of sneak attack - which makes TWF insanely good for sneak attackers. I'd probably allow sneak attacks to be used with iterative attacks but not with off-hand attacks.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Two weapon fighting just isn't enough of an advantage to require four feats, which includes one epic feat, especially since the bonuses you get from each successive feat are lower and lower. A feat that requires 19 dex and two other feats in order to get one extra attack at -10 to hit? How crappy is that!?

Make it not require a feat to use two light weapons at no penalties. One medium weapon makes it -2, two medium weapons make it -4. You can take a feat to use two medium weapons at no penalty. Oh yeah, and screw the power attack not working on light weapons thing... but keep it double for two handers. Now you're exactly balanced with two handed weapons.

-The Souljourner

 

[RisnDevil]

My vote for the simplest balancing factor?
1) make TWF a free option for everyone, alongside 2HF and S&B.
Thus we don't have people expending even one feat on a marginally sub-optimal tactic. It would be merely a stylistic issue.
The only problem that I see with this is actually with the implementation of sneak attack - which makes TWF insanely good for sneak attackers. I'd probably allow sneak attacks to be used with iterative attacks but not with off-hand attacks.
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You know what, I think with a little bit of other rules tweaking, this is the most sound answer! It is easily justified too! The ranger would need a little bit of tweaking, and I would probably still have a chart going only by the size of weapon you use. Something like no penalties if off-hand weapon is light, and a -2/-2 if off-hand weapons is not. But one question...how would you gain extra attacks from it? What kind of progression would you use? Or would you simply get one additional attack, no more as you level? I would really like to hear your reply to this Plane Sailing...

 

[RisnDevil]

I wouldn't quite say it is EXACTLY balanced, but it is almost perfect with your changes Souljourner. But it still does not address the issue of how/at what rate do you acquire additional attacks?

 

[The Souljourner]

You just get one attack with your off hand for each iterative attack you get. It follows the same progression as regular attacks, which is all the feats do anyway.

-The Souljourner