Damage Reduction

[Belbarrus]

I can't seem to find this anywhere in the rule book and the players may be encountering more creatures with Damage Reduction. Perhaps someone can assist me.

Damage Reduction: "The number in a creature's damage reduction is the amount of hit points that the creature ignores from normal attacks."

For example, if you hit a Stone Golem with DR 30/+2 with a normal longsword for 10 damage, its DR lowers this to zero and the Golem takes nothing.

It is also Magic Immunity making it immune to most, if not all, spells. For example, it is immune to the effects of a fireball spell.

Where does normal fire fit into this? If I hit a Stone Golem with a torch for, lets say, 3 fire damage. What is the result?

-It takes nothing because I am not using a +2 weapon and normal fire is considered a 'normal attack'.
-It takes the 3 damage, because regular fire is not considered a 'normal attack', it is energy damage, and the Stone Golem doesnt have fire resistance.

The description for DR states that DR does not negate "energy damage dealt along with an attack". So this looks like it is saying that a character that hits a Stone Golem with a normal torch for (lets say) 1 point plus 1d4 fire damage, bypasses the DR with the fire damage. If so, this is a cheap way of damaging a tough creature. Sure, you get -4 to hit because a torch is not a proper weapon and you may only do 1d3 or 1d4 damage, but you could *still* affect a stone golem. Is this right?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Against many creatures with DR, a torch would work just fine.

However, it might not work on a Stone Golem.

"Golems do not need to breathe and are immune to most forms of energy.
Construct: Immune to mind-influencing effects, poison, disease, and similar effects. Not subject to critical hits, subdual damage, ability damage, energy drain, or death from massive damage.
Magic Immunity (Ex): Golems completely resist most magical and supernatural effects, except where otherwise noted below."

That's from the SRD... I'd need to check the Monster Manual to see if it actually goes into more detail, but it looks like Fire damage might have no effect on a Stone Golem

-Hyp.

 

[Belbarrus]

Hmmm, yes. The MM states that "Since Golems do not need to breathe and are immune to most forms of energy, they can press an attack against an opponent almost anywhere, from the bottom of the sea to the frigid top of the tallest mountain."

But, unfortunately, this does not specify to the extent. It is probably immune to a 1d4 fire torch, but what about a bonfire or a forest fire? I cant seem to find an actual energy resistant entry though.

That's for Golems. What about other creatures with DR like a Gargoyle?

 

[rhammer2]

For most creatures with DR, energy damage will work. The exceptions will be in the monster stat block.

Hmmm, yes. The MM states that "Since Golems do not need to breathe and are immune to most forms of energy, they can press an attack against an opponent almost anywhere, from the bottom of the sea to the frigid top of the tallest mountain."

But, unfortunately, this does not specify to the extent. It is probably immune to a 1d4 fire torch, but what about a bonfire or a forest fire? I cant seem to find an actual energy resistant entry though.

That's for Golems. What about other creatures with DR like a Gargoyle?

 

[Belbarrus]

Oh, I think I may have found the answer. Thanks Hypersmurf, for mentioning the MM. I was looking in the DMG and PH for DR, but the DR entry in the MM states the following, clarifying this:

"The creature takes normal damage from energy attacks (even nonmagical ones),..."

Sounds good to me. Just seems a little odd though. In the module I am running there is a monster that is "supposed" to be invulnerable. The module writers gave it a very high DR and very high SR, but it only has acid immunity. Therefore the characters can hurt it with normal fire.

 

[Hypersmurf]

But, unfortunately, this does not specify to the extent. It is probably immune to a 1d4 fire torch, but what about a bonfire or a forest fire? I cant seem to find an actual energy resistant entry though.

That's the thing... "immune" doesn't have an extent. If he's immune to energy damage, he can go skinny-dipping in molten lava.

It's only the "most forms" that's a sticking point. But in the absence of further information, I think it probably means they're immune to energy, except where specific golem types are affected in certain ways by fire, or electricity, or whatever.

That's for Golems. What about other creatures with DR like a Gargoyle?

"Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains."

If you hit a creature with DR 10/+2 with, say, a flaming +1 longsword, for 5 slashing damage and 3 fire damage, the 5 slashing damage is negated by the DR, but the 3 fire damage applies as normal.

Same would go for a torch - the fire damage would work just fine.

-Hyp.

 

[Hypersmurf]

In the module I am running there is a monster that is "supposed" to be invulnerable. The module writers gave it a very high DR and very high SR, but it only has acid immunity. Therefore the characters can hurt it with normal fire.

Vampiric Black Pudding, perchance?

-Hyp.

 

[greycastle]

i hate to try and apply logic...

but a torch simply wouldn't damage Stone...

clay, maybe, flesh, almost certainly, iron, very limited, any gem type, simply 'no'

Even a forest set alight, a stone golem would shrug off the damage...because to be blunt...he's made of STONE!

 

[Li Shenron]

I thought it was quite left to DM's call, depending on the Golem's material. My players would despise me if I let them kill a creature made of STONE with torches.

 

[AuraSeer]

i hate to try and apply logic...

Good, don't, because that's not really logic. It's "common sense"-- the sum of your experiences based on what happens in the real world. It simply doesn't apply to the game. A monster is immune to fire only if its description says so.

An earth elemental is made of rock and dirt, but has no fire resistance at all. A golem with fire immunity* could bathe in lava forever without being harmed, even though in reality, the heat would eventually melt even stone or metal.

If you go around assigning extra immunities based on what "common sense" tells you, your monsters will be far more powerful than they should be. Some might end up being nearly unkillable. You should be aware of what you're doing when you make modifications like that.

[*Edit: I thought the stone golem description did specify fire immunity, but apparently I was wrong. Changed the asterisk line to hopefully prevent confusion.]