D&D 5E (2014) Dark Sun, problematic content, and 5E…

[Irlo]

So hard to convey tone, right?

I should know better.

 

[Cergorach]

So hard to convey tone, right?

Copious amounts of smilies helps!

 

[Faolyn]

Why do they have to produce material accessible for everyone?

Because they're a company. It's stupid of them to not produce material that is as accessible to as many people as possible.

And what does that mean? Is that $375 mimic made for every D&D customer?

Sure. Does everyone want it, or can everyone afford it? No. But it's made for everyone. Unless it has small parts that are choking hazards, in which case it's made for everyone over the age of 3.

I think not. Dungeons & Dragons vs. Rick and Morty was NOT made for every D&D customer, nor was Acquisitions Incorporated or The Stranger Things starter box. Nor does the D&D starter set come with braille dice...

AFAIK, none of those things you're talking about revolved around a specific type of event that not only harmed a lot of people in the past, but still continues to harm a lot of people today.

And while maybe the starter set didn't come with braille dice, braille dice do exist.

In what way can DS do harm to real people? If there are subjects in there you don't want to deal with, don't play it! Uncomfortable with HoL, don't play it! Or do the subjects in DS make people racist, etc.? If that's how that thought process goes... Euhhhhh... What would video games then do to people?

I'm pretty sure nobody has said Dark Sun makes people racist. If you believe that's what people are saying, then you really need to step back and re-read the arguments.

But why is the inclusion of slavery so important to you that Dark Sun can't be made without it?

I would say that murder is an unnecessary evil, murderhobo is an actual term. And sure we can say, those were all Evil by Nature beings, that's keeping it simple! Unless you just murdered a bunch of Lizardfolk, whom are Neutral... Let's do away with the ability to play an Evil character. And let's not forget all the tools in D&D to do really bad things, like Charm Person. We can go down an extremely deep rabbit hole, especially with D&D!

So, imagine if D&D hadn't built around the idea of going forth and heroically slaying the Always Evil beings that were performing Always Evil acts across the countryside, but instead had been built around the idea of sneaking into villages of peaceful, non-evil beings and slitting their throats, poisoning their wells, or carrying away their maidens and youths to rape and torture as you desire.

See, going around being heroic, which sometimes involves killing intelligent beings, isn't an unnecessary evil. It may not be the most optimal course of action, but it's not an unnecessary evil.

Murdering people in their beds, torturing them, etc., is an unnecessary evil. And so is slavery.

And here's the funny thing. Those really bad spells like charm person have, in fact, been toned down. It used to last for much longer (on average, three weeks) and didn't let the target know they've been charmed.

 

[Faolyn]

I'm sorry, but they're clearly not going to do anything with DS, original or reimagined. By that metric, they're already curtailing the free expression of their writers.

You're assuming that the writers are upset that they can't write it. Maybe the writers want to move onto original material?

 

[billd91]

I'm sorry, but they're clearly not going to do anything with DS, original or reimagined. By that metric, they're already curtailing the free expression of their writers.

Not really. The expression the writers make on the behalf of their employers is already not free - it's directed along the lines the employers want.
They may, however, have some sort of non-moonlighting/all efforts clause preventing them from publishing outside of their employer. But that has nothing to do with their employer choosing not to put Dark Sun on their schedule, per se.

 

[MichaelSomething]

I thought it was the 5E not to publish something if it would strongly offend a small minority? That's why 5E doesn't have a Warlord class; or marking, or "Come and Get it!"

 

[Minigiant]

The funny thing is if WOTC had created a purist Dark Sun conversion and adventure for 5e and it flopped and got tons of bad press, many fans who are upset about this decision would blame the new audience for getting upset or being disinterested and not buying it up.

 

[Umbran]

... but loud (political) group within their customer base.

Mod Note:

You know we have a no-politics rule. So, it is a little odd that you describe it that way. Are you sure you want to do that?

It is also a little disturbing that we cast being kind, thoughtful and respectful as "political". We here think this is more something we all should learn in grade school, not a matter of law or governmental action. Dismissing the desire for kindness as "political" is running afoul of our inclusivity policy.

So, please adjust accordingly.

 

[Micah Sweet]

You're assuming that the writers are upset that they can't write it. Maybe the writers want to move onto original material?

Since when has WotC moved into original material? When was the last time created a new campaign setting (created themselves, rather than publish someone else's setting under their brand)? Of course, maybe the writers do want to do that and the corp-types are stopping them. In that case, WotC is in fact curtailing their creative expression.

 

[pemerton]

Here's what I don't get: if someone wants to play 5e Dark Sun, why can't they just do it? You can get the setting stuff from DriveThru. Just use sorcerers for psionics, and don't use clerics or paladins. Done!