Darkvision Ruins Dungeon-Crawling

[Micah Sweet]

Good points/thoughts.

This also reminds me that it's one of the stronger advantages of VTTs with dynamic lighting. Different characters having different sightlines and visibility.

Dynamic lighting sounds cool, but I've seen more than one complaint that it shows down the program or doesn't work altogether, due to technical limitations. It seems to not quite meet up with the average VTT user's system from a technical standpoint.

 

[BrokenTwin]

VTTs do make dynamic lighting and characters with different levels of vision significantly easier for the GM to manage. Although if watching my GM trying to finangle it is any indication, the actual VTT mechanics can be finicky and distracting at the table.

 

[Reynard]

Dynamic lighting sounds cool, but I've seen more than one complaint that it shows down the program or doesn't work altogether, due to technical limitations. It seems to not quite meet up with the average VTT user's system from a technical standpoint.

VTTs do make dynamic lighting and characters with different levels of vision significantly easier for the GM to manage. Although if watching my GM trying to finangle it is any indication, the actual VTT mechanics can be finicky and distracting at the table.

Dynamic lighting requires setup, so it increases prep-time (which VTTs already do unless you are running a module very well implemented for the VTT). It is great if the GM puts in the time to both set it up and learn the system, but if not in either case it makes play significantly worse.

 

[Distracted DM]

Dynamic lighting sounds cool, but I've seen more than one complaint that it shows down the program or doesn't work altogether, due to technical limitations. It seems to not quite meet up with the average VTT user's system from a technical standpoint.

Maybe that's just Roll20?

It works great on Foundry. And probably on the newer Unity Fantasy Grounds.

I know I got burnt out on Roll20 a few years ago, it was a PITA to do prep for and didn't feel worth the effort. But other VTTs are superior nowadays... I don't know if Roll20 has done their long-promised big revamp yet.

But to the point, some characters having darkvision on a vtt just results in everyone wishing that they'd picked something with darkvision, and me as the GM feeling like the non-darkvision players are missing out because some players are seeing content the others aren't.

Player with 120ft darkvision: "Oh wow look at that gross pit, what the hell is that thing?"
Human: "what're you talking about?"

If it's in combat, maybe the human player will see the pit in half an hour
I end up throwing some little lights up here and there so the player doesn't feel left out.

 

[Reynard]

I know I got burnt out on Roll20 a few years ago, it was a PITA to do prep for and didn't feel worth the effort. But other VTTs are superior nowadays... I don't know if Roll20 has done their long-promised big revamp yet.

I have not used it, but the new underlying engine for Roll20 was rolled out.

 

[Mannahnin]

Dynamic lighting sounds cool, but I've seen more than one complaint that it shows down the program or doesn't work altogether, due to technical limitations. It seems to not quite meet up with the average VTT user's system from a technical standpoint.

It requires some additional setup by the DM, and at least on Roll20, it does require players to have decent internet connections and computers with more than the bare minimum memory and specs. If your players play video games at all on their computers they should be more than adequate. If not, yes, that can be an obstacle.

As for whether that's "the average VTT user", at this point I would estimate that the average user does have a machine that's perfectly adequate.

 

[Mannahnin]

I have not used it, but the new underlying engine for Roll20 was rolled out.

We're using it in my Wednesday night game. Jumpgate is a little wonky and still has some flaws, but the dynamic lighting seems to work fine most of the time. And that's with my laptop, which is pretty old and cheap.

 

[Thomas Shey]

To be fair, this is not a D&D 2024 thread. There are many varieties of fantasy game featuring dungeon crawling, and all of them have players. It may well be that darkvision facilitates a style of play well-supported by the current version of D&D, but that is not the only game out there, and it's fanbase isn't the only fanbase. I don't see the value in telling someone that "most players" aren't interested in what they want, even if it's true, in a thread that is about far more than the specific game to which you are referring.

Because its still going to be a factor in many cases in the games they run, too, unless the conditions (lack or heavily reduced opponents with dark vision or its equivalent) too. It didn't get this way in 5e by random accident. The fact some people are okay with it doesn't mean it isn't still going to get pushback; people can like other games without liking that element of them.

 

[Bill Zebub]

I last used dynamic lighting on roll20 several years ago. There was some amount of learning curve and setup time, although not terrible, and it worked pretty well. You can change settings in a number of ways. For example, two options are:

• Players can only see what literally their own character could see.
• Players can also see what other PCs in the party could see, if the lighting is appropriate. (So, for example, if another PC is in a different room, with a torch, you could also see that room.)

The former is perhaps more realistic, and allows for some interesting narrative tension because you can still HEAR the other players. But, honestly, it's also kind of a pain.

The other thing I didn't like about roll20 virtual lighting at that point was that shadows were pitch black. So, for example, as you moved around a column the other side of the column was literally black. In a room with a bunch of columns it made for a very disorienting scene. I would have preferred an almost-black version that let you see the basic features of the room, but with creatures (especially enemies) invisible.

But the main reason I backed off from using these sorts of features, and now exclusively use Owlbear Rodeo, is that RPGs were beginning to feel more and more like video games and less like something you play around a table with friends.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Maybe that's just Roll20?

It works great on Foundry. And probably on the newer Unity Fantasy Grounds.

I know I got burnt out on Roll20 a few years ago, it was a PITA to do prep for and didn't feel worth the effort. But other VTTs are superior nowadays... I don't know if Roll20 has done their long-promised big revamp yet.

But to the point, some characters having darkvision on a vtt just results in everyone wishing that they'd picked something with darkvision, and me as the GM feeling like the non-darkvision players are missing out because some players are seeing content the others aren't.

Player with 120ft darkvision: "Oh wow look at that gross pit, what the hell is that thing?"
Human: "what're you talking about?"

If it's in combat, maybe the human player will see the pit in half an hour
I end up throwing some little lights up here and there so the player doesn't feel left out.

If I were a VTT guy I'd definitely use Foundry.