Darth Plagius [SPOILERS]

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
You have to remember, Palpatine never said that life was ACTUALLY created...just that Plagius had the ABILITY to do it. So, again, we can't be sure.

But yes, even if you believe Palpatine at one point, things don't add up. At first, he says that Plagius taught his apprentice everything he knew. Everything. All things. Nothing was missed. Everything.

But then, after Anakin has become Darth Vader, Palpatine says that HE doesn't know how to keep people alive/create life.

So, where was he lieing? It was somewhere. Or did he just make up the entire story to play to Anakin?

What if everything was true, and the only lie was the claim that Sidious didn't know how to extend or create life? So, he is Plagius' apprentice, knows how to extend life, but withholds that training back from Anakin as a carrot, thus forcing Anakin to turn to the Dark Side in order to get the carrot......but of course, once he's become Vader, Sidious never really has to pony up with that particular schooling.....as it would allow Vader to save Padme, and risk love of Padme bringing Vader back to the light.

It was the desire for that skill that allowed Sidious to establish a hold on Anakin. Actually gaining the skill would result in Sidious losing whatever hold he had on Vader.

Banshee
 

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It's fascinating how people interpret things differently.

I saw that scene, and I thought it was very clear that Palpatine was telling Annakin, "I am your father." He was just doing it in a very subtle way.

I was shocked to get online later and discover how many people didn't get that out of it.

All that said, I've read--though I'm afraid I can't quote you a source--that an earlier draft of the script had Palpatine explicitly stating that yes, he did create Annakin, but that Lucas cut that. (For, I think, obvious reasons.) Take that for what little it's worth. :)
 

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
You have to remember, Palpatine never said that life was ACTUALLY created...just that Plagius had the ABILITY to do it. So, again, we can't be sure.

But yes, even if you believe Palpatine at one point, things don't add up. At first, he says that Plagius taught his apprentice everything he knew. Everything. All things. Nothing was missed. Everything.
Sidious also later said that his master taught him everything he knew, another in-movie "hint." But the Force works in strange ways. Sidious might actually know the proper Forcey things to create and sustain life, but might for some reason not have the power to do so. Just like Joda and Obi-Wan have to learn the Force Ghost stuff (and in Obi-Wan's case, communicating with Qui-Gong), Sidious might have to master that ability first (Somewhat like a wish spell in a 1st level wizards' spellbook ;)).

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
But then, after Anakin has become Darth Vader, Palpatine says that HE doesn't know how to keep people alive/create life.
I don't quite remember how he said it... "Only one person had that power," correct?
 

Chaldfont said:
I thought this same thing when I saw the movie on Sunday. It would be much cooler than the whole virginal conception and its heavy-handed symbolism.
That's where I disagree. Well, not with the heavy-handed symbolism, because I do agree that that was a pretty weak move on Lucas' part. But a dark side power that can spontaneously induce pregnancy in women being somehow "cooler"--I disagree with that. All arguments aside--the fact that Palpatine says Plagueis had the power to manipulate midichlorians and prevent death, not create life, say--in itself the concept is still amazingly cheesey, and much like the idea of midichlorians in the first place, doesn't jive with the feel of Star Wars (and by Star Wars I mean the movies, not the campy fanfic sometimes referred to as the EU).

Mouseferatu said:
All that said, I've read--though I'm afraid I can't quote you a source--that an earlier draft of the script had Palpatine explicitly stating that yes, he did create Annakin, but that Lucas cut that. (For, I think, obvious reasons.) Take that for what little it's worth. :)
Nothing short of Lucas' word or an authenticated copy of that draft would convince me of this; not, of course, that it matters, since it isn't in the movie anyway. Lots of things change in drafts (hell, you write books, you already know this), and the fact that they've been changed is all the evidence we need to say that they're now incorrect interpretations. At one point Luke was a girl, Anakin's name was Starkiller, Vader wasn't Luke's father, and a thousand other things were different; including, possibly, an attempt to write Palpatine as Anakin's creator. But all these things were written out--and this isn't an argument for Palpatine being, in effect, Anakin's father in the movie as we have it. Drafts are great for us curious folks who like to see things evolve, but as far as the story goes the fact that Lucas wrote this explanation out is more of an argument that it is incorrect than that it is correct.
 

Mouseferatu said:
All that said, I've read--though I'm afraid I can't quote you a source--that an earlier draft of the script had Palpatine explicitly stating that yes, he did create Annakin, but that Lucas cut that. (For, I think, obvious reasons.) Take that for what little it's worth. :)

What's funny is that I read somewhere online- can't seem to find where, unfortunately- that Lucas came out as saying that wasn't what he intended the scene to mean, that Plagius had nothing to do with Anakin's conception. Trying hard to find it, but in any case, I guess it just goes to show that you can find pretty much anything on the internet if you want to. :)
 

Knight Otu said:
Sidious also later said that his master taught him everything he knew, another in-movie "hint." But the Force works in strange ways. Sidious might actually know the proper Forcey things to create and sustain life, but might for some reason not have the power to do so.

He later tells Anakin that "Together, we shall discover the secrets of polonging life" or something similar. So I got the idea that he either a) didn't have the power himself, only knew of it (and he does say that Plagius was the only one to discover it), or else b) was making the whole thing up to help bring Anakin over to the Dark Side.
 

Wayside said:
That's where I disagree. Well, not with the heavy-handed symbolism, because I do agree that that was a pretty weak move on Lucas' part. But a dark side power that can spontaneously induce pregnancy in women being somehow "cooler"--I disagree with that. All arguments aside--the fact that Palpatine says Plagueis had the power to manipulate midichlorians and prevent death, not create life, say--in itself the concept is still amazingly cheesey, and much like the idea of midichlorians in the first place, doesn't jive with the feel of Star Wars (and by Star Wars I mean the movies, not the campy fanfic sometimes referred to as the EU).

The thing is Palpatine did say Plagueis had the ability to creat life from midichlorians.
 

Well, in the movie at least he doesn´t admit he was Plagius apprentice. Maybe he was the apprentice´s apprentice and didn´t learn all the lessons (maybe he learned the lesson to kill the master in sleep before he learned how to create new life)? Or it really was just a legend the Sith told ...
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Well, in the movie at least he doesn´t admit he was Plagius apprentice. Maybe he was the apprentice´s apprentice and didn´t learn all the lessons (maybe he learned the lesson to kill the master in sleep before he learned how to create new life)? Or it really was just a legend the Sith told ...


there's to many possibilities ... in the Rolling Stone interview GL said it was left open on purpose ... (Kinda like what is Yoda?)
 

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Well, in the movie at least he doesn´t admit he was Plagius apprentice. Maybe he was the apprentice´s apprentice and didn´t learn all the lessons (maybe he learned the lesson to kill the master in sleep before he learned how to create new life)? Or it really was just a legend the Sith told ...


It does make it sound that he *was* Plagius' apprentice and the one who "killed him in his sleep".... at least that's what I and my group got from the inference.

How else would Palpy know 1) the secret to prolonging life to start with and 2) just how Plagius met his demise?
 

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