Dave Noonan Responds about Wizard Implements

[Yergi]

New blog from Dave Noonan concerning response to the latest Insider article.

Daily Work: A million things today, so the morning blog will be brief. Maybe I'll be more verbose later in the day. Maybe.

Wizard: So...noticed the wizard preview, did ya? I'll make some comments based on message board traffic I've seen.

Wizard is my favorite class (well, second-favorite if you let me count gish as a class), and I'll grab one for a playtest every chance I can get. We've been through a number of iterations on the (boy is this going to be fun to type) the implementation of implements (staff, wand, etc.).

OK, I'm now prying the parentheses off of my keyboard.

The pendulum has swung around a lot during design on the implement issue. And it's like a Foucault pendulum, because it's swinging between more than two points. I've played versions where your choice of implement--both as part of the character-building process and as part of the basic "what's in my hand" decision--mattered a lot. And we've also tried where only a very small subset of your magic power interacted with your implement choice.

Right now the pendulum is resting somewhere in the middle. Or at least I hope it's resting. It wouldn't shock me if we gave it another push based on playtest feedback.

It's difficult to talk about implements without handing over big chunks of the Player's Handbook, but I'll give it a shot. I think I can avoid the mechanics while talking about the at-the-table result.

My 4e wizards are capable of the same breadth of tricks as their 3e ancestors...regardless of the choices I make about implements. But I do care about my implements. Smart choices there make me more effective and differentiate me from all those other--and assuredly lesser--wizards out there.

It's easy to take this analogy too far, but it might be worthwhile to think of a wizard's implements as analogous to a 3e fighter's weapon choice--if you assume that the fighter hasn't deeply, deeply specialized in that weapon through feat choice. Mid-level Tordek prefers axes, sure, and he probably has an advantage with an axe that's substantial but not overwhelming. You put a polearm in his hands, though, and he functions just fine. And he's accessing the salient properties of the polearm--reach, for example.

Another thing about implements and the "Iron Sigil"-style disciplines/traditions: They're extensible. I've read a lot of threads that essentially say, "Here's how I'm going to make it work in my campaign..." Yes! That's exactly what we had in mind. You can add your own implements and disciplines/traditions to the mix. Doing so takes some work, but it's not a massive undertaking.

And it probably won't shock you to learn that we might crank out some new implements and disciplines/traditions ourselves at some point.

OK, back to work. Must...type...faster.

Mood: Six minutes to microwave this?? Who's got that kind of time?
Music: Ba Cissoko, Electric Griot Land

 

[Engilbrand]

I think that the new articles about Wizards and their implements actually make me interested in playing a Wizard. I honestly want to make a guy who's a part of the Battle Mage group that has Wyvern in the title. (Temporarily forgot.) I like the ideas of implements adding things to your spells. As it is, it sounds like you can cast normally, just like a Wizard in 3.5. BUT, if you have an implement that you wave around instead of just your hands, your spell gets better. I like that. New ideas with bonuses, not old ideas with penalties. (Proficiences and the like fall into the second category.)

 

[Tewligan]

Wizard is my favorite class (well, second-favorite if you let me count gish as a class...

Dave Noonan just made my list.

 

[lukelightning]

I liked the idea of implements, and immediately saw the correlation to fighters' weapons. Just so long as you don't make "elven" the super version of wizardly implements I'll be happy.

second-favorite if you let me count gish as a class...

Isn't that a Prince song? "I just want your extra time and your....Gish!"

 

[Jer]

This part screamed out at me:

It's difficult to talk about implements without handing over big chunks of the Player's Handbook, but I'll give it a shot. I think I can avoid the mechanics while talking about the at-the-table result.

It makes me think that whatever underlying system they're using for wizard implements is being used for other things too.

And the way the "disciplines/traditions" and implements are being talked about, I'm getting a distinct "Mage the Awakening" vibe. I hope they're not that tightly integrated. I don't mind the idea of having magical traditions in my D&D games - in fact, I like it so much that I've been using them in my games for a long time[*] - but I want to be able to easily make my own traditions, not just get stuck renaming the traditions that they've already outlined because the spells that they've assigned to each tradition have to be kept the way they are due to "balance" reasons. I mean, it won't stop me from doing it, but it'll annoy me to no end.

[*] Originally inspired by the Secret Schools of Magic from the Principalities of Glantri gazetteer, actually, though re-inforced through Ars Magica and later Mage.

 

[lukelightning]

It makes me think that whatever underlying system they're using for wizard implements is being used for other things too.

Makes sense. Different clerical implements, different martial styles for monks, different sneaky things rogues can do depending on if they have a light weapon or a ranged weapon or sneaky rogue ninja weapons...

 

[Khairn]

An interesting direction for the wizard. A few of the questions that come to mind include ...

-Do other arcane casters have similar flavor of implements that provide a bonus?

-Is there a reason why this concept couldn't work for divine catsers as well?

hmmm ... something I find actually interesting about 4E, that even has an element of RP in it. This is a first.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

It was pretty obvious that they were going to leave room for new implements and traditions/disciplines. They obviously can't have everything at once in the new PHB, they do have to sell books you know...

And this does leave some tools to have things customized for campaign settings.

 

[Chris_Nightwing]

Well I'm still not keen on the specific traditions mentioned in the article. If there was a tradition creation system, or a wide array of generic traditions, I'd be happier.

Also, Tewligan, you should really put that list in spoiler tags in your sig

 

[Yergi]

Well I'm still not keen on the specific traditions mentioned in the article. If there was a tradition creation system, or a wide array of generic traditions, I'd be happier.

Also, Tewligan, you should really put that list in spoiler tags in your sig

*snip* You can add your own implements and disciplines/traditions to the mix. Doing so takes some work, but it's not a massive undertaking. */snip*

I think that's pretty strong evidence that you will be able to create your own traditions.