Dazzed until grabbed?

[Syrsuro]

If you remove the dazed effect, can you flank on what remains of your turn?

For example, what if an ally has readied an attack for when you escape the cube.

It seems to me that if you believe that the dazed effect placed restrictions on what you can do for the entire turn, even if you escape - the answer to that question is "No, you cannot flank on the turn you escape".

But if you think that the escaping the dazed effect removes the restrictions placed by the dazed effect then "Yes, you can flank on the turn you escape."

So which is it and why?

Carl

 

[Gruns]

Yes you can.

If you remove the dazed effect, can you flank on what remains of your turn?

For example, what if an ally has readied an attack for when you escape the cube.

It seems to me that if you believe that the dazed effect placed restrictions on what you can do for the entire turn, even if you escape - the answer to that question is "No, you cannot flank on the turn you escape".

But if you think that the escaping the dazed effect removes the restrictions placed by the dazed effect then "Yes, you can flank on the turn you escape."

So which is it and why?

Carl

Contrary to what others might suggest people are implying, no one thinks Daze "places restrictions on what you can do for the entire turn". Of course you can flank (and you no longer grant Combat Advantage, and you can once again take Immediate Actions) once you're no longer Dazed. This isn't in question at all.
The real debate is whether or not being Dazed causes you to lose two of your three allotted actions, or does it simply "hide" two of them temporarily?
And since the PHB doesn't state what happens in this specific case, the answer is "Whatever your DM says".
Later!
Gruns

 

[CapnZapp]

Aah... it's reassuring to see rules-lawyering is alive and well in fourth edition too...

 

[DracoSuave]

Aah... it's reassuring to see rules-lawyering is alive and well in fourth edition too...

Better on the forums then at a game table.

 

[Nail]

Aah... it's reassuring to see rules-lawyering is alive and well in fourth edition too...

A helpful comment! Thank you.

Back on topic: GoLu states the counterarguement well, I think. I'm almost convinced.

Daze could be interpreted such that you only get one action, and removing daze doesn't give you your actions back. It could also be interpreted such that it prevents you from taking a second action if you have already taken an action this turn, and so removing daze would lift the restriction on your actions.

Dazed is a condition. Conditions are applied at the "start of your turn" phase. Dazed restricts what actions you can take on your turn (specifically: one standard, or one move, or one minor).

...but if it's a restriction, and you are able to remove it before your turn is complete (specifically: by escaping the grab of a gelatinous cube => no action point required), then I can see why you might think you get your "remaining actions" back.

So: Is the restriction on your actions checked at the Start of your Turn phase, or at any time during your turn?

 

[James McMurray]

Conditions are applied at the "start of your turn" phase.

Where does it say this?

 

[Nail]

Where does it say this?

PH p268

"Other Effects: Deal with any other effects that occur at the start of your turn."

 

[James McMurray]

That says to deal with effects that occur at the start of your turn. It says nothing about what those effects are, only what to do with them.

 

[Journeymanmage]

That says to deal with effects that occur at the start of your turn. It says nothing about what those effects are, only what to do with them.

I think you're missing the real point.

On Mr. Cube's turn, Mr. Cube: Engulfs --> Bob. The affect of being Engulfed is Dazed. There for Bob is Dazed on Mr. Cube's turn.

Agreed?

Assume that after Engulfing Bob, Mr. Cube ends it's turn. Say the Undead from that from that encounter go next. If they take some kind of action ... and Bob has a power/ability that is an Interrupt, he can Not use it as he is Dazed. Nor can Bob take an Opportunity Action as he is Dazed.

Assume that at some point Bob's turn occurs.
Part 1: Bookkeeping.
- On Going Damage: Bob takes 10 Acid because he is Engulfed.

Are you saying Bob is not Engulfed?

- etc.
- Other Effects: *
* Now it's being discussed that the effect "Dazed" is not tracked here because it is not a "start of your turn" effect. If you wish to take that stance, that's fine.

But that does not preclude that fact that Bob was Engulfed during the Cube's turn which has the effect of
1. 10 Acid Ongoing
2. Dazed

At this stage of the turn (part 1: The Start of Your Turn) Bob has already taken his 10 Acid damage. (-Ongoing Damage)

-End Effects: **

**Bob has not had an opportunity to break free of Engulfed. So Engulfed has not ended, therefore Bob is Dazed.

-No Actions: Bob can't take any actions at the start of Bob's turn.

Part 2 of Bob's Turn: Actions on Your Turn:
-Your Actions: You get the following three Actions: Standard, Move and Minor.
-Dazed: You can either take a Standard, a Move, or a Minor.

Bob was Engulfed --> Dazed on Mr. Cube's turn (and some decide that it is not needed to book keep it on part 1 of the turn).

Did Bob escape the Engulf during Bookkeeping? No.

Is Bob still Engulfed-->Dazed at the end of Part 1 of his turn? Yes.

-End Effects, Bob has had No opportunity to end any effects on him. Therefore at the start of Part 2: Actions on Your Turn Bob is allocated his 3 actions, but because he is Dazed, he only gets 1.

Escaping by using your 1 action does not refund you the lost actions. Nor does using an AP to escape refund you your lost actions. You are allocated your actions at the start Part 2. At the start of Part 2, when Bob was Dazed, he was allocated his actions and lost them as he was >Dazed<.

 

[James McMurray]

Tawn, here we go again.

1) You aren't allocated actions at the start of your turn. That's a fiction dreamed up by people who want daze to last even after it's gone.

2) You can't be refunded actions because you nevr lost them. You were unable to use them, exactly as the dazed condition states.

3) Got anything else? Anything new?