DC Checks From Spells From Scrolls?

[Number47]

This is why you use scrolls, potions and wands for utility or defense, and use your memorized spells for attacking!

 

[Aluvial]

Re: Re: Re: Re: DC Checks From Spells From Scrolls?

No. The other way to figure it out is 10 + the level of the spell or effect + the ability bonus of the minimum ability score needed to cast that level of the spell. This is also on page 176 of the DMG.

Interesting... I would have not thought that would apply to scrolls but sure enough, right there in the text.

The funny thing about it is that if you use the 1.5 method and you are at an odd spell level, you lose one in the DC for rounding down each time!

So for example a 5th level caster casting a 3rd level spell would need at least a 13 Intelligence and the DC would be 10 + 3 + (1.5 rounded down to 1) = 14.

In essence every other spell level gets the increase...

Level.....DC
1...........11
2...........13
3...........14
4...........16
5...........17
6...........19
7...........20
8...........22
9...........23

So according to page 176 of the DMG all spell scrolls of the same level have the same DC -- Always. (unless you have the feat Reynolds describes from the ELH)

So if you choose to scribe a scroll with a higher caster level, you are only getting the benefits of caster level variables in the spell. Higher caster level will never effect the DC of a spell from a scroll.

They should have given us this chart to start with!

Aluvial

 

[kreynolds]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DC Checks From Spells From Scrolls?

The funny thing about it is that if you use the 1.5 method and you are at an odd spell level, you lose one in the DC for rounding down each time!

The result is the same even if you use the other method described in the DMG.

They should have given us this chart to start with!

That definately would have been neat as a little sidebar or something, for those of us that are lazy and don't wanna bother with the math (like me ).

 

[Aluvial]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DC Checks From Spells From Scrolls?

That definately would have been neat as a little sidebar or something, for those of us that are lazy and don't wanna bother with the math (like me ).

That's what I'm saying. Why isn't that on every single DM screen produced. I don't understand why they don't see some of these obvious issues.

I'm sending this one in to the Sage for inclusion in the magazine...

I hope the revisions have this type of correction in them. It is pointless to spend two paragraphs describing the situation when you can have one small chart that gives you the answers!

Aluvial

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: DC Checks From Spells From Scrolls?

The funny thing about it is that if you use the 1.5 method and you are at an odd spell level, you lose one in the DC for rounding down each time!


Aluvial

Well, since you don't get a modifier increase for odd-numbered stats, the DC shouldnt be higher either... Thats the way it goes...

Maitre D

 

[Aluvial]

I can't find that Epic Level Handbook feat. Are you sure it is from there?

I like the idea of it but am not sure about why you get to add a full ability modifier to what already has an ability modifier for each scroll in the first place. Maybe they wouldn't stack.


Ramble on....

In any case looking at that chart, magical item save DC's stink.

You can't improve them and characters and opponents are most likely going to save from effects being used against them just because the magical items/scrolls that enemies use are around the same levels and abilities of your opponents.

In other words, you and your opponents should never have items beyond their level, and since these items/scrolls have low DC's you or your opponent is most likely going to save when the item/scroll is used.

Characters over 6th and 7th level start making most all of their saves when confronted with magical items of appropriate power. How many CR 6 and 7 creatures are walking around with 9th level magical items? None! They have stuff based around 3rd and 4th level spells, tops! Your PC's are more than likely going to save!

Rambling off....

Aluvial

 

[Skaros]

No. See page 176 of the DMG.

Sounds good to me. Wonder if I could paste the cover of an old C++ book onto the outside of my DMG and reference it at work....could be useful.

Skaros

 

[kreynolds]

Wonder if I could paste the cover of an old C++ book onto the outside of my DMG and reference it at work....

I do it with my playboy mags....oh crap....was that out loud?

 

[kreynolds]

I can't find that Epic Level Handbook feat.

Page 114.

 

[Black Omega]

Ramble on....

In any case looking at that chart, magical item save DC's stink.

You can't improve them and characters and opponents are most likely going to save from effects being used against them just because the magical items/scrolls that enemies use are around the same levels and abilities of your opponents.

Rambling off....

I tend to agree, Item save DC's aren't very good. I think that's kinda the point. The Wand or Scroll of Fireball might be nice in certain ways, but it won't be as good as your wizard actually taking the spell and casting it. Personally, I prefer it this way. It means items aren't as good as the PC's, which suits my style just fine. YMMV.