DDI vs WoW

[xechnao]

A new audience must be found...

Or:
...the old audience must be recycled...

If you give Iceberg's post some credit. This is the reason why I quoted her.

 

[Firevalkyrie]

Or:
...the old audience must be recycled...

If you give Iceberg's post some credit. This is the reason why I quoted her.

Thank you

I don't think recycling the old audience is entirely the solution. Bradford may be off on a number of points but he does have it correct that the old audience ain't getting any younger. We need fresh blood.

And of all RPGs out there, D&D is best positioned to get it, given its affiliation with the world's #2 toy company.

 

[drjones]

I haven't got this. I think he is arguing that the tabletop business model should not try to compete with the MMO model and instead try to evolve or revolve in a way that originates and capitalizes to its basic unique premises and strengths in the new era.

if that is is his point then I think he is wrong in that mmos and rpgs are not in direct competition for the dollars of gamers.

An argument can be made that young nerds who spend all their time working on their shammy are not going to be buying dnd books like we did and that will cause problems of sustaining profits over the long term but there is nothing keeping someone from playing/liking both. I play all the mmos for a little while (lotro right now) but I still buy wotc and paizo stuff and play games with my buddies.

So yeah I think wotc competes with WoW as much as it competes with Xbox or Lost on Thursdays, we have a lot of entertainment choices so by god the dnd better be fun. (which is why I am looking forward to 4th but that is another topic)

 

[Firevalkyrie]

And honestly, I don't think the DDI is going to make games any 'easier' to schedule. Anyone who's run a PnP RPG online probably knows this.

To be honest, scheduling "team" instance runs in an MMO (as opposed to dropping into a PUG) isn't any easier. I've never managed to pull it off with less than a full week's notice.

 

[I'm A Banana]

There's a lot of assumptions couched in that statement that aren't very solidly founded.

But I will say that D&D isn't aping WoW any more than WoW is aping Final Fantasy*.

Which is to say, not really at all (though some ideas are cross-fertilizing).


*I'm excluding FF11, which basically tried to be WoW with an FF skin.

 

[Kishin]

To be honest, scheduling "team" instance runs in an MMO (as opposed to dropping into a PUG) isn't any easier. I've never managed to pull it off with less than a full week's notice.

Agreed, if you're trying to prepick every member of your team beforehand, its about the same as planning an RPG session (minus having to build the instance). If you're just asking amongst the guildmates online, obviously its quicker.

 

[Hussar]

*snip*

And honestly, I don't think the DDI is going to make games any 'easier' to schedule. Anyone who's run a PnP RPG online probably knows this.

Actually, I think it will for a few reasons.

VTT play means that you are no longer limited to the players in your area. If you want to start a campaign, pick a time, then advertise that you are running a game (weekly/monthly/whatever) in that time slot. If there is a large enough pool of players, you will find people who fit into your time slot.

And, looking at the RPGA, I can see that driving DDI VTT play (how's that for acronyms?). Last time I looked, they said they had 150 000 RPGA members. Say you can draw 1% of those into regular VTT play. That's 1500 players. Assume, for the moment, that a group is 5 players (1 DM +4 players) and that's 300 groups. That's a group starting every 1/2 hour every day. That means finding a group will be very, very easy.

I know from my experience with OpenRPG, which has a MUCH smaller audience to draw from than WOTC or the RPGA, that I can advertise a new D&D game running any time of the day, and within a week I'll have six regular players.

((Now, if two or three of those six weren't mouth breathing, knuckle dragging social troglodytes who bugger off into the night without a moment's notice, that would make me even happier. :/))

 

[The Little Raven]

*I'm excluding FF11, which basically tried to be WoW with an FF skin.

Final Fantasy XI was released in May, 2002.
World of Warcraft was released in November, 2004.

Given the length of development cycles, I don't think your statement is accurate, especially considering that Final Fantasy XI was released before Warcraft 3.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Final Fantasy XI was released in May, 2002.
World of Warcraft was released in November, 2004.

Given the length of development cycles, I don't think your statement is accurate, especially considering that Final Fantasy XI was released before Warcraft 3.

Not really my point...

But, you're right, I probably should've said "tried to be Everquest with an FF skin."

Really, my point is that FF11 was an MMO, which makes it kind of the red-headed stepchild in a series filled mostly with single-player party-based RPG's.

Which WoW was not trying to be.

Because D&D isn't trying to be an MMO.

They're just trying to use the internet to keep people playing the game.

It's two fundamentally different approaches to using the same tool.

Just because D&D now has marks and WoW has something called "marks" and sometimes characters in Final Fantasy can use a Cover move that guards the weaker members of the party doesn't mean they're trying to do the same thing, even though they accomplish broadly similar tasks (and I don't think the WoW marks really DO accomplish the same tasks, but whatever).

Mmmkay?

 

[Spinachcat]

D&D 4e will succeed.

Games evolve by assimilating bits from other games. RPGs, board games, CCGs and video games are not distinct entities and the designers of all are influenced by the other designers. This is a GOOD thing. D&D 4e represents the assimiliation of many aspects of other popular games and this will attract new customers. Plus, what edition of D&D hasn't been a major hit?

DDI will succeed.

WoW has been going strong for 4 years and dozens of copycat MMOs exist out there with little variation in gameplay. ALL of these MMOs are limited by technology. Current tech does not allow fluid storytelling and the ability to focus on a single person's wish fulfillment. GMs can do this. This is where DDI is stronger than MMOs. Obviously, not for everyone, but TRPG play will draw those people who like WoW, but want that deeper story and that personalized focus where their hero's actions permanently change the game world.

I run convention games. So many gamers tell me that their only gaming is at cons because of (a) no group or (b) time. If DDI is done well, it will be the most amazing godsend for all these people. With so many English speaking gamers around the world, this also opens the possibility of 24/7 D&D happening.

I imagine that we will see RPGA play expand enormously via DDI. Like some posters said, getting an online group to meet at a set time each week is a headache too. However, what if every weekend was a RPGA convention? That is, there are "tables" with a GM available and you just join up, play a game with strangers and then bail. If you like any of the other players, you PM them to build a future group of your own.

The RPG hobby will be fine.

The RPG hobbyists are mid-30s to mid-40s. Nowhere near death. Gamers have 40 years before death is an issue - plenty of time for the hobby to resurge. We will be tossing dice in the senior centers.