Level Up (A5E) Deadlier combat

[aco175]

A lot of this seems to be nerfing the characters or the way healing works. I think tougher needs to be simple and easy to incorporate. Adding to the monsters is easy for the players since they keep on as normal, but may add to the DM depending on what we are trying to do. Simple may be just having HP go into the negative and now you PC at -10hp needs more than a healing word to get back up.

Deadlier could be stuff like energy drain and level loss (even if temporarily). Something easy could be -2 AC if you were knocked below 0hp until short rest/ long rest? Need to ask if this would just create the 5MWD.

 

[Asisreo]

Taking out the healers first makes combat deadlier. With no way to gain HP, they'd need to either roll a nat20 on death saves or wait the 1d4 hours to get 1 HP back. They may not be in a great position to take a long rest, either since interruptions might cause the healers to fall again.

 

[DND_Reborn]

The amount or when you loose it?

Attacks affect BHP after your HP is 0 or on a critical hit. We stopped using the critical hit option (too deadly for us) until I re-introduced "confirmed" critical hits.

The amount of BHP is: (STR mod + CON mod) x size, which is 1 for medium. Finally, when damage would affect your BHP, it is first reduced by your armor's DR (only time armor DR comes into play, otherwise it is just AC like RAW). Armor DR = AC - 10.

PS HP are figured normally.

Ok, just because I work best by example, let me see if I understand your system.

Fighter with STR 16 and CON 14 has 5 BHP.
He is wearing chain shirt and shield (AC 15, so DR 5).
At level one, he has 12 HP (max 10 +2 CON).

Not sure I follow your critical hits. Is damage normal or "double dice". Does it apply immediately to BHP on a 1-1 basis, or cause 1 BHP with "critical hit rolled damage" applied to HP?

In the example fighter above:
He takes 8 damage, reducing HP to 4.
He is hit for 6, reducing HP to 0 and causing 2 BHP. Because 2 BHP are done, his DR 5 kicks in, reducing the BHP to 0.
He is then hit for 9, his DR reducing it to 4 BHP, leaving him 1 BHP.

I ask because of our incorporation of EL (exhaustion levels) seems to mimic your BHP closely.

 

[DND_Reborn]

I like all your house-rules. Every time you post one I think, "Hey, that's great, we should do that for our games!"
Would you care to PM me your list if you have them available in an easily PM-able way?

Thank you for the wonderful compliment! I know house-rules are very personal as to what people want in their game. I'm working on revising and compiling our rules for our next game which I will be running. Honestly, we've had SO many rules that have come and gone, I am not certain exactly which ones you would like to use. I'll PM you and we can discuss them in general until I know more specifically what you are looking for.

 

[Raith5]

I don't know that they need to be "tougher," but hitting harder would be nice. Monster damage doesn't scale with PC level/HP and that is a shame. Lost of ways to fix this though.

Yeah, i agree. 5e monsters dont need more hp. I am also thinking out of turn attacks or attacks when bloodied, imposing effects. Ideally it would be things that PCs can counter with smart tactics rather than only utilising the healing option

 

[DND_Reborn]

@dave2008 and @Raith5

Yeah, monsters don't need more HP except solos. We've been granting solo encounters max HP because otherwise they are dead in 3 rounds...

I think reducing PC HP is a better route than increasing monster damage. Also, introducing rider effects for larger monsters should be standard IMO. Giants, for example, should be able to attack two adjacent targets with one attack, and force targets to make STR saves to not be knocked prone, etc.

People often talk about monsters not being interesting enough, so I think more riders would help that, too. shrug

 

[RangerWickett]

Y'all got it all wrong.

Don't change the rules. Change the narrative.

0 HP isn't unconscious and dying. It's knocked on your butt and too injured to keep fighting or to defend yourself. You're still aware, and if someone heals you, you can scrape your butt off the floor and get back into the fight.

Now it doesn't seem like people are nearly dying and then hopping back into the fight.

Make it so you only start making death saves if you take damage again while at 0, or if you were reduced to 0 by a crit.

 

[Stalker0]

the “healing yo-yo” problem exists because the threshold to die on a single attack is simply too high. Once characters are 5-6th there’s just no amount of damage on a single attack that is going to finish them off, so there is no risk in waiting to heal.

I have tried lots of house rules on death saves...automatic death save on unconscious, hidden saves (you don’t roll them until your healed),failures last until long rest.

nothing ever really did the job. Then I lowered the death threshold back to the old negative 10 and it worked like a charm. I noticed an immediate change in party behavior, people took healing seriously.

So I think the change is very simple.

1) if an attack would put you at negative 10, you die. Otherwise your unconscious at 0 hp.

2) any new hit that does 10 or more damage kills you. Otherwise it gives a death save (no need for crits to add 2 Saves anymore)

3) roll Death saves like before.

4) healing starts at 0 and goes from there.

This removes the negative hit point tracking from previous editions but eliminates the yo-yo problem, because no person is going to be comfortable at low hp with no healing, as they are risking death with the next hit.

if people like con score instead that’s fine too, the key is to a number that a decent attack or spell could manage to do

 

[Helldritch]

A friend of mine is using a rule to prevent the whack a mole syndrome and I think I might just use it.
If you fall, any excess HP damage is an indicator of how many round you will stay uncounscious.
3 HP of excess damage means 3 rounds out of combat, even if healed to maximum.
With this, no levels of exhaustion to encourage the 5mwd. No long term injury or penalty.
You are simply and effectively out of combat.
I am way harsher than that on the whack a mole, as any intelligent opponent will then focus on the fallen combat that has just been upped and will kill him with attacks on him. My players way prefer to have a spare the dying instead. It is a safer way to survival.

 

[DND_Reborn]

A friend of mine is using a rule to prevent the whack a mole syndrome and I think I might just use it.
If you fall, any excess HP damage is an indicator of how many round you will stay uncounscious.
3 HP of excess damage means 3 rounds out of combat, even if healed to maximum.
With this, no levels of exhaustion to encourage the 5mwd. No long term injury or penalty.
You are simply and effectively out of combat.
I am way harsher than that on the whack a mole, as any intelligent opponent will then focus on the fallen combat that has just been upped and will kill him with attacks on him. My players way prefer to have a spare the dying instead. It is a safer way to survival.

Some nice ideas here. Have to think them over...

Do you allow spells like Greater Restoration to restore consciousness?