Death by Infelicitas - Is it acceptable?

[Lwaxy]

Really depends on the game. I have seen a lot of weird deaths from both sides of the table. More often than not, it ends in laughter. In character driven games, as in some characters crucial to the story, we tend to bring in destiny points or the like to represent a god's protection etc. But that's only in very few games.

The accidentalliest (yes, that's a word, really ) death one of my PCs ever had was, if I remember right, being killed by a flying tree in a bad storm.

 

[Tuft]

Some people like to roll up new characters and try out their new powers immediately. Some players like to make connections; collect NPC friends and contacts, tie themselves to the history and legends of the world, make themselves part of the local NPC community.

A death will disrupt the play for the first kind of player very little, even invigorate it, while it will disturb the second one greatly; you don't roll upp new emotional connections as easily as you roll up new stats and powers.

So, in order to provide the best experience, general rule 1A applies: KNOW YOUR PLAYERS!


My personal experience (as usual, yours may vary):

I used to be part of a major campaign (20+ years in the making, dozens of regular players, 8-12h play/week...). That campaign applied a death penalty; die and your next character came back weaker. During my play I saw at least half dozen spectacular death spirals, as these new weaker characters of course tended to die much easier, and then the player got an even weaker character, which died even easier, and so on...

What happened at first was that those trapped in such a spiral first stopped caring about NPCs and plot hooks, seldom bothering to interact with the world. Then, after a few more deaths, they started doing stupid things just out of "what the heck, things cannot get any worse" - insulting visiting enemy generals, jumping off cliffs to measure their height by HP lost, going left in the dungeon when the rest of the party went right, stagediving into zombie hordes, and so on; finally, when even those characters predictably died, the players stopped showing up. In the end, I also ended up on that fast downward spiral, but luckily I got rescued to another campaign where I got to make characers I liked, and who had staying power (fate points!) so that I could afford to invest emotionally in them again, and stop doing stupid things.

Once, before modern medicine, the majority of infants died during their first year. in many communities people did not baptize their children until that year had passed; they did not want to make the emotional investment of giving a name until it had a more reasonable chance of survival... The analogy may be a little extreme, but I still think it apt. Too much random death, and you simply stop caring about your characters.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Some people like to roll up new characters and try out their new powers immediately. Some players like to make connections; collect NPC friends and contacts, tie themselves to the history and legends of the world, make themselves part of the local NPC community.

I like both.

I just accept that PC death is a risk in a RPG.

 

[S'mon]

I used to be part of a major campaign (20+ years in the making, dozens of regular players, 8-12h play/week...). That campaign applied a death penalty; die and your next character came back weaker. During my play I saw at least half dozen spectacular death spirals, as these new weaker characters of course tended to die much easier, and then the player got an even weaker character, which died even easier, and so on...

Death spirals are an interesting topic. "Die and you come back -1 level" on the face of it seems much more generous than the old school "everyone starts at 1st level", but recently I have been doing the old school way and the results are fascinating: With all PCs starting at 1st, there is no vicious spiral effect. Instead, the GM is forced to accommodate the reality that most people are 1st level, and create an environment to match - an environment tailored to survival at 1st level.
Instead of the on-level grind of CR matched encounters & death spiral if you die, you instead get a virtuous circle effect - 1st level is survivable, with luck, but the more levels you get, the better your survival chances. Although if you are 4th level and adventuring with 1st level newbies, you probably won't die but you won't level fast, either.

Obviously this does not allow for Adventure Paths, but for sandbox play IME it works brilliantly.

 

[Dice4Hire]

HOLY CRAP! I just realized I'm a black guy with a bunch of red shirts in my wardrobe! I really AM just here to show the seriousness of the situation!

I'd only worry if the red shirts are currently on your back.

 

[delericho]

In most games, if there is simply no risk of death, that's a deal-breaker. Indeed, if I become aware that the GM is fudging rolls to keep PCs alive, that's a deal-breaker.

Conversely, in most games too much PC death due to random rolls is also a deal-breaker - if we can't achieve anything because PCs keep getting wiped out, there's little point in trying.

What's needed is a happy medium. In general, I'm in favour of a "three strikes" policy - a single bad roll won't kill you, but a sequence of three will. So, in general, save-or-die isn't great; I prefer save-save-save-or-die. Conversely, the oft-cited example of 3.0e's orcs with their x3 crit greataxes are actually fine, since an insta-death required a nat-20 attack roll plus a high confirmation roll plus a high damage roll, satisfying the "three rolls" requirement.

Of course, that's just my view. YMMV.

 

[Argyle King]

My view:


let the dice fall where they may


If you don't feel comfortable dealing with the possible consequences of rolling the dice, don't call for them to be rolled.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Yes. But it should not be random bad luck.

looking into a Medusa´s eye should turn you to stone. fighting with Ogres at level 1 should kill you...
Actually fighting fair should always have a chance of you dying. You should only start a combat if you know you are in an advantageous position.

So I would never kill PC´s, just because they had real ad luck while doing everything right. (Sleeping in enemy territory can´t be considered "non-stupid" however...)

 

[jasper]

People who cry about bad luck in games involving dice need to get a clue. Do they cry when they lay $20 on the crap table in Vegas and roll snake eyes? Or do they ask the pit boss for a do over?
Now I had people who took death personally, either I made allowances with person or didn't. It came down to was the group at was Okay with Dannyalcatraz 'Red Shirt' being only mostly dead. Or making 'Red Shirt' grow into the group thinking or walking.
After a quick experment with 'death spirals' the group would reach a choose an acceptable mode. Like 'level -1 for new character' or ' lowest active level ' or 'avg level of party'.

 

[Zhaleskra]

I'd only worry if the red shirts are currently on your back.

You're forgetting a common Horror Movie Trope: Black Dude Dies First.