Defending weapon property

[Herremann the Wise]

It's still a magical weapon. But do you consider it to be a weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus (not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality) while that bonus is transferred to AC?

I think they've used that definition of "magical weapon" because it is all encompassing, or so they thought with their qualification regarding masterwork equipment. I think the defending quality is the only one that can defy this definition and was not considered or thought of. My opinion is that the magic that creates the +1 enhancement bonus is in effect and still active, it has just been channelled elsewhere - into an unnamed AC bonus. Obviously, I would fail to find any ruling to support this view, but I think it a reasonable interpretation.

Related question - a Medium +1 defending longsword has hardness 12 and 15 hit points. If you transfer the +1 enhancement bonus to AC, what are its hardness and hitpoints in that time?

I don't know if there's errata on this but:

Each +1 Enhancement bonus also adds 1 to the weapon's or shield's hardness and hit points.

Your base medium longsword has hardness 10 and hit points 5. Because it only has an enhancement bonus of +1, does this mean that the new hardness is 11 and hit points 6?
However, that is a slightly separate question again.

In regards to the transfer to AC of the enhancement bonus, I suppose this would slightly change the hardness and hit points of the weapon back to it's base quality. Does this also make the defending weapon vulnerable to mundane attacks? With a strict reading, I suppose it does although I would be inclined to capriciously ignore this. I suppose I prefer the interpretation of what the weapon normally is rather than what it is at that moment due to an effect caused by itself. A garbled way of saying, "hey, if it's magical, it's still magical".

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[Hypersmurf]

My opinion is that the magic that creates the +1 enhancement bonus is in effect and still active, it has just been channelled elsewhere - into an unnamed AC bonus.

So does the wielder get to add +1 to his attack and damage rolls? Or is it a weapon that doesn't have a +1 enhancement bonus?

I don't know if there's errata on this but:

There's errata on this. +2 hardness, +10 hit points, per point of enhancement.

Does this also make the defending weapon vulnerable to mundane attacks?

All weapons are vulnerable to mundane attacks. The "must have an enhancement bonus equal or greater to sunder" rule doesn't exist in 3.5, post-errata.

I suppose I prefer the interpretation of what the weapon normally is rather than what it is at that moment due to an effect caused by itself.

Regardless of what caused the effect, the effect was caused.

-Hyp.

 

[Dross]

I'm inclined to go with Hypersmurf's 'same as in 3E' call.

So you will still get the MW +1 to hit, and the weapon is magical for things like DR (at +0 if it ever becomes important), with the (magically adjusted) normal hardness and HP.

I have a feeling that the person who said this was thinking 3E not 3.5E, something common enough in our games unfortunately.

Thanks for all the replies

Dross

 

[Zandel]

That sounds right. In 3.0 the weapon would no longer be able to defeat DR as you needed a +x to defeat it but in 3.5 it is still magic so it still bypasses DR x-magic. The Masterwork +1 is in effect because they overlap and the larger/better magic +x is now gone just as if you were in an anti-magic field.

 

[Zandel]

edit: Except in the case of DR.

 

[Hypersmurf]

That sounds right. In 3.0 the weapon would no longer be able to defeat DR as you needed a +x to defeat it but in 3.5 it is still magic so it still bypasses DR x-magic.

To bypass DR X/Magic in 3.5, you require a weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus.

Effectively, 3.5's DR X/Magic is the same as 3E's DR X/+1. A magical weapon without a +1 or higher enhancement bonus cannot bypass DR X/magic, just as an epic weapon without a +6 or higher enhancement bonus cannot bypass DR X/Epic.

-Hyp.

 

[Zandel]

Do you have an SRD quote to back that one up? I can't remember seeing any.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Do you have an SRD quote to back that one up? I can't remember seeing any.

DAMAGE REDUCTION
Some magic creatures have the supernatural ability to instantly heal damage from weapons or to ignore blows altogether as though they were invulnerable.

The numerical part of a creature’s damage reduction is the amount of hit points the creature ignores from normal attacks. Usually, a certain type of weapon can overcome this reduction. This information is separated from the damage reduction number by a slash. Damage reduction may be overcome by special materials, by magic weapons (any weapon with a +1 or higher enhancement bonus, not counting the enhancement from masterwork quality), certain types of weapons (such as slashing or bludgeoning), and weapons imbued with an alignment. If a dash follows the slash then the damage reduction is effective against any attack that does not ignore damage reduction.

Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).

Whenever damage reduction completely negates the damage from an attack, it also negates most special effects that accompany the attack, such as injury type poison, a monk’s stunning, and injury type disease. Damage reduction does not negate touch attacks, energy damage dealt along with an attack, or energy drains. Nor does it affect poisons or diseases delivered by inhalation, ingestion, or contact.

Attacks that deal no damage because of the target’s damage reduction do not disrupt spells.

Spells, spell-like abilities, and energy attacks (even nonmagical fire) ignore damage reduction.

Sometimes damage reduction is instant healing. Sometimes damage reduction represents the creature’s tough hide or body,. In either case, characters can see that conventional attacks don’t work.

If a creature has damage reduction from more than one source, the two forms of damage reduction do not stack. Instead, the creature gets the benefit of the best damage reduction in a given situation.

-Hyp.

 

[Cam Banks]

I think we could be fairly confident in saying that a +5 defending longsword still counts as having +1 or better enhancement bonus even if it's all been moved to AC for a round, when determining if it can bypass DR. To argue against that is a little silly.

I do find the idea of the enhancement bonus of the masterwork weapon remaining even when the weapon's bonus is used for AC quite clever. Not sure if that's ever come up to be honest. It sure makes a +1 defending weapon a sure bet.

Cheers,
Cam

 

[glass]

I think we could be fairly confident in saying that a +5 defending longsword still counts as having +1 or better enhancement bonus even if it's all been moved to AC for a round, when determining if it can bypass DR. To argue against that is a little silly.

I don't consider it silly. I consider it obvious. The rule says you need a +1 enhancement bonus to bypass DR/magic. If you haven't got a +1 enhancement bonus, you don't bypass it.

I'd also say that by the RAW the hp and hardness also change, but I'd be tempted to houserule that. I'd also houserule that the full enhancement bonus contributed to your opposed roll against being disarmed, however it was distributed.


glass.