D&D General Defining "New School" Play (+)

[cbwjm]

And I'm saying this has nothing at all to do with new school play--it's simply a degenerate form of play that can appear in any school. Including old school.

Well I guess that's just a case of different experiences as I do believe that it is a part, maybe not the whole part, of new school play whereas I never saw anything like that in old school play. What I saw in old school play was people working to solve things like puzzles, whereas new school people just wanted to be able to roll a skill or ability check.

 

[pemerton]

Well I guess that's just a case of different experiences as I do believe that it is a part, maybe not the whole part, of new school play whereas I never saw anything like that in old school play. What I saw in old school play was people working to solve things like puzzles, whereas new school people just wanted to be able to roll a skill or ability check.

This is from Gygax's DMG, p 97:

Secret Doors: These are portals which are made to appear to be a normal part of the surface they are in. They can possibly be sensed or detected by characters who are actively concentrating on such activity, or their possible location may be discovered by tapping (though the hollow place could be another passage or room beyond which has no portal in the hollow-sounding surface). Discovery does not mean that access to the door mechanism has been discovered, however. Checking requires a very thorough examination of the possible secret door area. You may use either of two methods to allow discovery of the mechanism which operates the portal:

1. You may designate probability by a linear curve, typically with a d6. Thus, a secret door is discovered 1 in 6 by any non-elf, 2 in 6 by elven or half-elven characters, each character being allowed to roll each turn in checking a 10' X 10' area. This also allows you to have some secret doors more difficult to discover, the linear curve being a d8 or d10.

2. You may have the discovery of the existence of the secret door enable player characters to attempt to operate it by actual manipulation, i.e. the players concerned give instructions as to how they will have their characters attempt to make it function: "Turn the wall sconce.", "Slide it left.", "Press the small protrusion, and see if it pivots.", "Pull the chain."​

It is quite acceptable to have a mixture of methods of discovering the operation of secret door.​

So the method of rolling dice rather than declaring puzzle-solving actions, goes back to 1979. (Or earlier, given that Gygax's DMG tends to be a documentation of existing practices rather than a source of new approaches.)

 

[Corinnguard]

Using virtual tabletop programs to role-play with other people who live in another state or even another country IMO. Most of my role-playing group lives in Texas. Remember when role-playing was a local thing in the pre-Internet days?

 

[cbwjm]

This is from Gygax's DMG, p 97:

Secret Doors: These are portals which are made to appear to be a normal part of the surface they are in. They can possibly be sensed or detected by characters who are actively concentrating on such activity, or their possible location may be discovered by tapping (though the hollow place could be another passage or room beyond which has no portal in the hollow-sounding surface). Discovery does not mean that access to the door mechanism has been discovered, however. Checking requires a very thorough examination of the possible secret door area. You may use either of two methods to allow discovery of the mechanism which operates the portal:​

​

1. You may designate probability by a linear curve, typically with a d6. Thus, a secret door is discovered 1 in 6 by any non-elf, 2 in 6 by elven or half-elven characters, each character being allowed to roll each turn in checking a 10' X 10' area. This also allows you to have some secret doors more difficult to discover, the linear curve being a d8 or d10.​

​

2. You may have the discovery of the existence of the secret door enable player characters to attempt to operate it by actual manipulation, i.e. the players concerned give instructions as to how they will have their characters attempt to make it function: "Turn the wall sconce.", "Slide it left.", "Press the small protrusion, and see if it pivots.", "Pull the chain."​

​

It is quite acceptable to have a mixture of methods of discovering the operation of secret door.​

So the method of rolling dice rather than declaring puzzle-solving actions, goes back to 1979. (Or earlier, given that Gygax's DMG tends to be a documentation of existing practices rather than a source of new approaches.)

I wouldn't really consider finding a secret door a puzzle.

 

[KYRON45]

Everywhere you go, you hear talk about "Old School" Play. Old School This, Old School That. There are games part of the Old School Renaissance that pride themselves on how close to Gary's Vision they can be. But while everyone is rolling 3d6 in order and searching for that save-or-die poison trap that has to be around here somewhere, I have to ask "Old School in relation to what?"

So this thread is to discuss what it means to be "New School". When did it start, what does it entail and how can it be fostered and improved. This is a plus thread, so the point is to celebrate and nurture new school play. OS people, uh go hangout in Dragonsfoot or something...

What is New School Play (to me)

Cavaet: This is my view on NSP.

1.) Characters are special. New School play fosters a sense that the PCs are cut above the standard person. They have unique skills, a complicated backstory, a special origin, or some other thing that makes them just a little bit different. New School characters can be the scions of prominent figures, selected by the God's to be their chosen, have cursed lineages they must absolve or at least bare, or are prodigies in their chosen field. That is not to say all characters have 20-page backstories: sometimes the baker's daughter discovers she's a sorcerer and goes adventuring. The key is they aren't just random mercenaries, they have something special.

2.) Characters are defined by those around them: New School characters often have a variety of connections in their life: Friends, Family, Loves, Bosses, Rivals, Etc. The relationships help define the character. Does the PC adventure out of loyalty to his friends, quest for the love of a beautiful maiden, or seek to win the approval of a doubting father. They may have an enemy who shows up to ruin their day, a Moriarty to the PCs Holmes. This could be the campaign villain or a side character. Regardless, they are in it for more than just gold and glory.

3.) Campaigns have clearly defined Stories: NS play often has an endpoint; a place the story builds to. Villains scheme and plot, cataclysms threaten to destroy what the PCs love, the fate of kingdom/world/multiverse is in the PCs hands. This is commonly seen in adventure paths (see below): but its far older: most people would credit Dragonlance for this style of play but I think the Ur example is the GDQ: Against the Giants -> Queen of the Demonweb Pits where the PCs seek to explore disturbances with a local giant steading and get drawn into the machinations of the drow and their Goddess, Lolth. There are stakes, tension, and narrative flow. Events build on each other. Eventually, only the PCs can save everyone.

4.) Death is Not the Only Fail state (but it's the worst one): New School Play rarely treats player characters like tissue. Meatgrinder play is seen as anathema to NS play. Instead, PCs often suffer other setbacks other than death. After all, if all the PCs die, the game is over. That is not to say NS play is easy or a cakewalk, but it does mean that PCs have a little plot armor (even something as thin as negative hp/death saves) and often, failure results in the loss or treasure, plot complications, and other "fail forward" options.

5.) Play is narrative, but not necessarily linear: Adventures, and to larger degree, campaigns, have a greater emphasis on narrative play. The PCs find a hook and get involved in the action, often following the story beats to their conclusion. That is not to say NS play is a railroad (as some like to paint it); there can be multiple branching paths and a Good DM has to know how to get PCs who have wandered too far afield back to the focus, but adventures tend to have a strong story element, not just a dungeon to explore for gold.

6.) NS emulates Fiction: Most people who play RPGs do so because they saw some other form of media (movies, games, novels, etc) and said, "I want to make my own." NS play attempts to capture that spirit. It has players making characters like the ones they see in fiction and has DMs telling stories like the ones that inspired them. Large the life villains, grand stakes, bold heroes. They have come to tell a shared story like the ones that have inspired them.

That's my list of what NS means to me. Feel Free to add your own or comment on what is there. Let's build a community that prides itself on being New School.

My table has looked like this since 90's. It has always baffled me that all of this isn't how people play. Just goes to show that there are as many types of playing as there are players.

 

[Corinnguard]

I wouldn't really consider finding a secret door a puzzle.

True, but you could have a puzzle that opens up a secret door if solved correctly by the party.

 

[KYRON45]

I wouldn't really consider finding a secret door a puzzle.

Depends on the nature of the door.

 

[aco175]

My very basic view of the difference between new and old is that old school you'll get a puzzle to solve and players talk about how to solve whereas in new school you just roll a check to figure it out.

I think the biggest aspect of NSP is Character Play over Player Play.

Grogrick the PC beats the challenge not John the Player. The Player comes to the table informed of their PCs common actions and which ones they are better at.

PCs and Monsters have abilities on their sheet that determine their successes.

Anyone can shove. The action is described or laid out in the rules. Grogrick and the Ogre monster can Deal Damage and Shove in one action.

Both these also point to power being more in player hands over the DM to make judgements. There was more of the gotcha between the two and now the PC can do all sorts of things that do not need the DM to make some sort of guess.

You want to check for secret doors, roll a Perception or Investigation. Yay, you find a secret compartment in the bottom of the desk drawer. Before it was more, how do you check? Do you touch the desk? You did not say you were looking in the bottom of the drawer.

I do not want to go back to the day of approaching every door taking 10 minutes of checking for this and that before thinking it was coated with poison or a possible trap and needing the 10ft pole.

I do like some of this at some times. A random puzzle could have a hint with a roll or check, but most can come from the players.

 

[aco175]

New School characters overlap onto other classes a lot. You no longer need to fill a role at the table since each class has a sub-class that can do something to fill it. Backgrounds even have things or feats to fill roles. They are much more powerful this way. It makes it a bit blurry and I can see a day where classes are gone and you just pick from a suite of skills and powers.

You can also get by with less people. Gone are the days of needing to make 8 friends and now you can get by with 3-4 of them. A party of 3 can do more than old school 8-10 could have done.

 

[Oofta]

Everywhere you go, you hear talk about "Old School" Play. Old School This, Old School That. There are games part of the Old School Renaissance that pride themselves on how close to Gary's Vision they can be. But while everyone is rolling 3d6 in order and searching for that save-or-die poison trap that has to be around here somewhere, I have to ask "Old School in relation to what?"

So this thread is to discuss what it means to be "New School". When did it start, what does it entail and how can it be fostered and improved. This is a plus thread, so the point is to celebrate and nurture new school play. OS people, uh go hangout in Dragonsfoot or something...

What is New School Play (to me)

Cavaet: This is my view on NSP.

1.) Characters are special. New School play fosters a sense that the PCs are cut above the standard person. They have unique skills, a complicated backstory, a special origin, or some other thing that makes them just a little bit different. New School characters can be the scions of prominent figures, selected by the God's to be their chosen, have cursed lineages they must absolve or at least bare, or are prodigies in their chosen field. That is not to say all characters have 20-page backstories: sometimes the baker's daughter discovers she's a sorcerer and goes adventuring. The key is they aren't just random mercenaries, they have something special.

2.) Characters are defined by those around them: New School characters often have a variety of connections in their life: Friends, Family, Loves, Bosses, Rivals, Etc. The relationships help define the character. Does the PC adventure out of loyalty to his friends, quest for the love of a beautiful maiden, or seek to win the approval of a doubting father. They may have an enemy who shows up to ruin their day, a Moriarty to the PCs Holmes. This could be the campaign villain or a side character. Regardless, they are in it for more than just gold and glory.

3.) Campaigns have clearly defined Stories: NS play often has an endpoint; a place the story builds to. Villains scheme and plot, cataclysms threaten to destroy what the PCs love, the fate of kingdom/world/multiverse is in the PCs hands. This is commonly seen in adventure paths (see below): but its far older: most people would credit Dragonlance for this style of play but I think the Ur example is the GDQ: Against the Giants -> Queen of the Demonweb Pits where the PCs seek to explore disturbances with a local giant steading and get drawn into the machinations of the drow and their Goddess, Lolth. There are stakes, tension, and narrative flow. Events build on each other. Eventually, only the PCs can save everyone.

4.) Death is Not the Only Fail state (but it's the worst one): New School Play rarely treats player characters like tissue. Meatgrinder play is seen as anathema to NS play. Instead, PCs often suffer other setbacks other than death. After all, if all the PCs die, the game is over. That is not to say NS play is easy or a cakewalk, but it does mean that PCs have a little plot armor (even something as thin as negative hp/death saves) and often, failure results in the loss or treasure, plot complications, and other "fail forward" options.

5.) Play is narrative, but not necessarily linear: Adventures, and to larger degree, campaigns, have a greater emphasis on narrative play. The PCs find a hook and get involved in the action, often following the story beats to their conclusion. That is not to say NS play is a railroad (as some like to paint it); there can be multiple branching paths and a Good DM has to know how to get PCs who have wandered too far afield back to the focus, but adventures tend to have a strong story element, not just a dungeon to explore for gold.

6.) NS emulates Fiction: Most people who play RPGs do so because they saw some other form of media (movies, games, novels, etc) and said, "I want to make my own." NS play attempts to capture that spirit. It has players making characters like the ones they see in fiction and has DMs telling stories like the ones that inspired them. Large the life villains, grand stakes, bold heroes. They have come to tell a shared story like the ones that have inspired them.

That's my list of what NS means to me. Feel Free to add your own or comment on what is there. Let's build a community that prides itself on being New School.

Based on your definition, I guess I've been doing NSP for a few decades without even realizing it.

Or maybe, just maybe, there has never been one monolithic school of thought when it comes to playing the game and different people started going in different directions since the inception of the game.