D&D 3E/3.5 Deflect Arrow in 3.5

[Tellerve]

I don't have the epic handbook, so I'm going to talk out of my a$$ here. But, couldn't you have those abilities then use the reflex saving throw just as before. So that mister monk could deflect one flawlessly but then when 63 arrows come at him from a wall of archers he has to make some saves.

Tellerve

 

[sithramir]

I don't have the epic handbook, so I'm going to talk out of my a$$ here. But, couldn't you have those abilities then use the reflex saving throw just as before. So that mister monk could deflect one flawlessly but then when 63 arrows come at him from a wall of archers he has to make some saves.

Tellerve

They removed the reflext save part. Not that only being able to do it once per round part. So this doesn't matter anyways.

And removing the save doesn't seem such a bad idea to me. It can be argued either way, but the point has been made that an equivalent archer can shoot 2 in a round at 2nd level and that anything higher will beshooting several off anyways. Plus the fact that he does have to be aware of it so its not like you sneak up shoot and he auto deflects.

 

[hong]

So, Diana, the epic archer fires the kajillion arrows she can fire in a round at Fred and he being 2nd level (the monk's minimum for the feat) manages to deflect one before being nailed to the wall by the other kajillion-1.

As I said before:

Not to mention that it makes the machine-gun archer schtick even more of a good thing.

I happen to be one of those who doesn't _like_ the machine-gun archer schtick. Doing a full attack round after round for a kajillion points of damage may be really good at mowing down monks with Deflect Arrows, but it also gets boring after a while.

 

[hong]

Imagine that you took the feat with the nerfs proposed.

Who's proposing a nerf?

 

[Hypersmurf]

Who's proposing a nerf?

Or, to elaborate:

The 3.5 auto-success is more powerful because you can't fail.

Hong's proposed dodge-bonus-mechanic is more powerful because it applies against every ranged attack, not just the first in each round.

Chaotic Good is the best alignment you can be because...

-Hyp.

 

[MarauderX]

I think they simplified it because it didn't come up all that often. I haven't exclusively played monks. But when I did I by luck or whatever, didn't have many arrows or bolts or whatever coming at me. I agree it seems a bit odd to just automatically do it, but it is just one arrow/bolt/whatever per round. As was pointed out the kajillion -1 would hit and pincushion the monk.

Tellerve

So what about the monk with Deflect Arrows and Combat Reflexes? Do these not work in conjunction? So if a monk get shot at twice by some punk ranger with Rapid Shot, she can't block the second shot? It would seem to me that the two feats would work together, that she could block up to as many as the Combat Reflexes would allow, and then she is out of luck. So vs. that same punk ranger the monk would easily block both shots, but vs. 10 punk rangers she would be out of luck and get tagged after using up all of her Combat Reflex 'actions'. And if any more of those punk rangers were to run past her, she wouldn't get an AoOs cause she used them all up.

 

[Darklone]

Houserule alert:
Change the deflect arrows back to DC20 (+x for magic). Add +5 for consecutive attacks (DC 25+x for the second arrow, DC30 for the third). Each deflect attempt wastes an AoO.

 

[sithramir]

So what about the monk with Deflect Arrows and Combat Reflexes? Do these not work in conjunction? So if a monk get shot at twice by some punk ranger with Rapid Shot, she can't block the second shot? It would seem to me that the two feats would work together, that she could block up to as many as the Combat Reflexes would allow, and then she is out of luck. So vs. that same punk ranger the monk would easily block both shots, but vs. 10 punk rangers she would be out of luck and get tagged after using up all of her Combat Reflex 'actions'. And if any more of those punk rangers were to run past her, she wouldn't get an AoOs cause she used them all up.

DEFLECT ARROWS [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted.
Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
Special: A monk may select Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
A fighter may select Deflect Arrows as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Its only once per round. Attacks of Opportunity don't have anything to do with it nor can they add to it. It just sats once per round. Note the aware of the attack and not flatfooted. If he can't see you or its a surprise round you still whack him. If you shoot morethan one arrow you still (assuming you can hit) whack him.

It sucks that he auto does it in a sense but its not that overpowering. Its simpler and he only blocks one.

 

[MarauderX]

DEFLECT ARROWS [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted.
Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
Special: A monk may select Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
A fighter may select Deflect Arrows as one of his fighter bonus feats.

Its only once per round. Attacks of Opportunity don't have anything to do with it nor can they add to it. It just sats once per round. Note the aware of the attack and not flatfooted. If he can't see you or its a surprise round you still whack him. If you shoot morethan one arrow you still (assuming you can hit) whack him.

It sucks that he auto does it in a sense but its not that overpowering. Its simpler and he only blocks one.

Dang. Thanks for looking it up, and once I DM a game I will probably use a technique similair to what Darklone suggested to keep it more 'reasonable', or at least closer to reality. There was a reason archers in armies all shot in volleys and not at will.

With the rules as they stand in 3.5 I am reminded of the distraction techinque I used with snowballs - you make two snowballs, and launch the first in a slow arc towards you target, then the throw the second as hard and fast as you can while you target watches the first one.

 

[MadScientist]

I also hate the auto-success mechanic of the new Deflect Arrows. I agree that it is not terribly unbalanced in a typical game (although it is powerful because it auto-negates a successful hit). It does, however lend itself to wonky metagame thinking that I don't like. It also breaks my suspension of disbelief in certain situations. (Monk stands against pole, single x-bowman shoots at him ALL DAY AND NEVER HITS, well the monk should join the circus, make a fortune!)

For example, in a fight with a group of enemies where only one of them is using ranged attacks and has a cross-bow. The PC with Deflect Arrows has no reason at all to seek cover from the x-bowman because he knows it is impossible for him to get hit.

As a DM I have two x-bowman targeting the party. I know they both have to shoot the monk in the same round to have any chance of hitting, but do THEY know that? How long would it take them to figure it out? Now I have a weird meta-game situation where I have to choose between playing NPC's effectively and not making the monks player feel as though I'm metagaming to negate one of his powers.

I also do not ascribe to the theory that the skill of the archer would have nothing to do with how difficult it is to deflect an arrow. The baseball analogy presented by MarauderX demonstrates this nicely IMO. A skilled archer could shoot you in locations that are difficult to reach. Also punch, once initiated, is pretty much has a predetermined path, but some blows are still much harder to deflect than others.