D&D 3E/3.5 Deflect Arrow in 3.5

[MatthewJHanon]

Hi, I've been looking at the 3.5 SRD trying to decided if I am going to by the books or not. One thing I came across is that in the Deflect Arrows feat description there is no mention of a reflex save, or any other check to see if you suceed or not?

Does the PHB mention any? If not it seems to mean that deflect arrows works automatically now, which sort of surprises me.

 

[Hypersmurf]

It's automatic now.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

It's automatic now.

Gads, I hate all-or-nothing mechanics. So, Diana, a 30th level epic archer with ludicrous bonuses to attack and damage, shoots Fred, a 1st level neophyte monk, and... nothing. Not to mention that it makes the machine-gun archer schtick even more of a good thing.


What do people think of the following replacement/supplement for Deflect Arrows?

Prerequisites: Base attack bonus +5, Dodge, Improved Dodge.

Benefit: You gain a +4 dodge bonus to AC against ranged attacks. If you choose to fight defensively, this bonus increases to +8 (stacking with the usual bonus to AC gained from fighting defensively). If you take the total defense action, it increases to +12, again stacking with the usual bonus gained from total defense. Furthermore, if you take the total defense action, a natural 20 on a ranged attack roll doesn't count as an automatic hit on you.

This feat doesn't provide a benefit against effects that require a ranged touch attack roll. You can only use this feat if you are wearing no heavier than light armor, and carrying no more than a light load.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Thing is, the archer's skill - unlike the skill of someone swinging a sword - is meaningless after the arrow leaves the bow. Either the arrow is on target, or it isn't.

That's why I liked the 3E Deflect Arrows mechanic. If the arrow is on target, it has a static DC to deflect. If it's not, then there's no need to deflect. It doesn't matter how good the attack roll was - it's either aimed at you, or it isn't.

I don't like the automatic 3.5 version... but to me it still makes more sense than a modifier to AC. The archer can't change the path of the arrow once it's fired, so making it an opposed roll (which, in a way, is what your proposal does - essentially, you're taking 10 on a don't-get-hit roll against a scaling DC based on their attack roll) doesn't work for me.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Thing is, the archer's skill - unlike the skill of someone swinging a sword - is meaningless after the arrow leaves the bow. Either the arrow is on target, or it isn't.

That's not really the point, though. The arrow might _be_ on target, but the target can still do something about it. The point is how you choose to represent the target doing something about it.

That's why I liked the 3E Deflect Arrows mechanic. If the arrow is on target, it has a static DC to deflect. If it's not, then there's no need to deflect. It doesn't matter how good the attack roll was - it's either aimed at you, or it isn't.

But some people are better at aiming, and anticipating the target's reactions, than others. This is particularly the case in fantasy. The arcane archer can shoot a target who's completely hidden or behind a wall, for instance, and there's plenty of stories about blind archers (or swordsmen) who are better than any sighted counterpart. It should be harder to evade shots from these characters than from your ordinary joe bowman.

"Reach out with your feelings, Luke!" etc.

I don't like the automatic 3.5 version... but to me it still makes more sense than a modifier to AC. The archer can't change the path of the arrow once it's fired, so making it an opposed roll (which, in a way, is what your proposal does - essentially, you're taking 10 on a don't-get-hit roll against a scaling DC based on their attack roll) doesn't work for me.

It is, however, consistent with how the rest of the system treats evading a ranged attack. If you want to dodge an arrow, it's part AC. Similarly if you want to parry a sword blow, or dodge a claw, or whatever. There's no reason you can't extend this to handle someone who's really good at dodging, blocking or parrying arrows.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Similarly if you want to parry a sword blow, or dodge a claw, or whatever.

Parrying a sword or a claw makes sense as an opposed mechanic, though. Deflecting an arrow is more like Strike an Unattended Object.

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

Parrying a sword or a claw makes sense as an opposed mechanic, though. Deflecting an arrow is more like Strike an Unattended Object.

The point is that some arrows should be harder to deflect, with the measure of difficulty being provided by the skill of the archer. If you use a mechanic that doesn't scale by level, then it may work really well at low levels (which map reasonably well to real-life), but break down at high levels (which are more similar to a supers game than anything realistic).

 

[Hypersmurf]

The point is that some arrows should be harder to deflect, with the measure of difficulty being provided by the skill of the archer.

How? Barring magic, arrows follow a predictable path. They don't turn corners or change direction unexpectedly...

-Hyp.

 

[hong]

How?

In a supers game, you don't ask "how". You ask "how much?"


Hong "awaiting the completion of the creeping HEROization of D&D" Ooi

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I don't like the fact that deflect arrows is automatic in 3.5 either.
So I'm using my own version:

Once per round when would normally be hit by a ranged attack you may substitute a reflex save for your armor class.