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Deities and Portfolios

If your idea is to have a small number of gods, it's definitely interesting. They are going to cover quite a large portfolio each, and this will probably give each of them more than one possible facet: there will be priests of the same god which argue/discuss about different aspects of their faith and which should be dominant for example.

I don't know if you intend to use the standard alignment system. Anyway, one thing you can already think about is in general if you are going to have evil gods and how many. There are different possibilities, all of which make for good settings, so it's up to your preferences. A few choices would be:
- more or less as many evil gods as there are good ones, the pantheon is roughly divided in two sides although the evil ones probably struggle also against themselves
- a single evil deity opposed to all the others and concentrating all evil matters (eventually there are minor evil deities at her service, but here I'm thinking only about the major gods)
- no evil deities, and evil worship is related to fiends and similar powerful beings

I mention this because it has an impact on the portfolios. For example, when you have to choose which deity rules over death, the typical options are to either make it an evil deity which hates life, or make it a good/neutral deity who protects the dead and preserve the normal lifecycle.

Well, if you want to compile a list of portfolios, I would start thinking about large and important matters for the people in the world, such as the following (and possible associated alignment):

Nature/Fertility/Prosperity/Earth - good
Wisdom/Justice - lawful good
Wealth/Crafts/Commerce - neutral
Beauty/Love/Arts - chaotic good
Family/Protection/Home - good
War/Conquest/Nobility/Rulership - lawful
Death - any evil or any neutral

Note that I haven't written Magic as a major group. Normally the deity of magic is always a major one, but just to suggest something different for once :p I'll make it a minor deity, which the majority of people in the world won't worship since it doesn't affect their lives. This can be very different in your setting of course.

After that, you can write down a second list of minor portfolio entries which can be associated to the groups above. Whenever you find one that doesn't fit to the main groups above according to your taste, you can make it a minor deity. I'll try to show an example of associations as well (by no means a complete list), although each has obviously multiple choices! The ones with "none" will go into minor deities:

Animals - with nature
Darkness - none
Destruction - none
Disease - none
Duty - with justice
Healing - with family
Hunting - with war
Illusion - none
Knowledge - with wisdom
Lies - none
Luck - none
Magic - none
Murder - none
Plants - with nature
Sea - none
Secrets - none
Storm - none
Strength - with war
Travel - none
Theft - none
Tyranny - with war
Wind - none

The portfolios destined to minor deities can be grouped together e.g. in this way:

Darkness/Disease/Murder - an evil minor deity at the service of death (if evil)
Illusion/Lies/Theft - a chaotic minor deity about dishonorable methods of achieving your aims, whether good or evil
Destruction/Storm - a minor CE deity at the service of death (if evil)
Luck/Magic/Secrets - a neutral or CN minor deity, emphasising the wild nature of magic
Sea/Travel/Wind - a neutral deity in service of the god of wealth

Finally if you want elements to have a religious role, you could associates all elements to the deity of nature, or you could associate each element to a different major deity, or you could make specific minor deities for each element, or you could just assign elements to the rulers of elemental beings but not deities.

Similar approach can be used for seasons, maybe each season is associated to a different deity, or otherwise all to nature.

Note that when you choose your favourite associations, you also set a hint about culture in your setting.
For example, normally hunting is associated with nature to emphasise that it is a normal part of natural life; for a change, I associated it with war, and suddenly it becomes more related to civilized life and possibly opposed by nature worshippers.
By adding tyranny to war, I opened the possibility of slightly leaning the war god to LE: it can still be lawful and socially accepted, but people will argue about whether war brings tyranny as a consequence (often in a setting there are separate deities for LG war and LE war).
By associating healing with the deity of family and home I have indirectly taken it away from the nature deity, possibly suggesting that nature priests may consider healing ambiguous: perhaps they may always cure people which were hurt by weapons or other people, but they may be less willful to heal/resurrect people hurt by a more "natural" source, as it is considered to be part of normal natural lifecycle.
 

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Dr. Strangemonkey said:
My friends and I made a list of our favorite deities, conflated those of them who were fairly similar, and then ran off to develop those that remained.

wow... that is so totally cool. you just gave me an awesome world building idea. take all the gods that exist, in any campaign world (FR, WoG, etc) as well as the D&DG ones, make a photocopy of their basic info, TAKE OFF THE NAME to prevent bias or favoritism, and then have the players go at it to cut them down and make a decent pantheon. :) then, after altering each one to suit your campaign's needs, rename them and then you have your pantheon! i so want to do this. :D
 

Goblyns Hoard said:
But I do think you'll have a problem with those aspects you point out - so many things can encompass the full range of emotions. Even war can be found in a fair few you've mentioned (Fury, Hate, Grief, even Love in terms of Love of country).

Indeed, indeed...

The pantheon I developed had a similar concept in that I gave each of the gods a 'sin' to represent them as well as the traditional spheres of influence. So each has two 'positive' and one 'negative'. The negative is viewed as something to be resisted by good worshippers, or revelled in by evil worshippers (my gods don't have alignments).

I love this idea! This in effect systemizes the possibility of in-fighting within a Church. It is absolutely brilliant!

Back to your original query - here is the full list of spheres that I have used:

Arrogance
Beauty
Charity
Cold
Community
Consequence
Craftmanship
Dark
Dawn
Death
Deprivation
Earth
Fertility
Gluttony
Harvest
Inspiration
Jealousy
Justice
Knowledge
Life
Light
Love
Lust
Magic
Obsession
Oceans
Peace
Prejudice
Rage
Reflection
Revenge
Sloth
Storms
Tyranny
Vanity
War

Thanks for the list. It is helpful. :)
 

Roman said:
I am creating a pantheon and need to create deities to cover all important areas of life, endeavour, metaphysics, etc. That said I do not want thousands of deities - I want the deities to be encompassing enough so that a very high number of deities is unnecessary, but on the other hand I do not want a monotheistic or duotheistic system. I am not sure where to begin. Would anybody be willing to help me identify the important / overarching / encompassing portfolios I need to cover?

My DM did something similar in our current campaign. The world has four gods (technically, 2 gods and 2 goddesses). They cover the four seasons, Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos... and everything else. There's a sidebar that discusses it in my storyhour http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=775988&postcount=20

It might help you as a jumping off point.
 

Li Shenron said:
If your idea is to have a small number of gods, it's definitely interesting. They are going to cover quite a large portfolio each, and this will probably give each of them more than one possible facet: there will be priests of the same god which argue/discuss about different aspects of their faith and which should be dominant for example.

Yes, that is the general idea of what I want to accomplish.

I don't know if you intend to use the standard alignment system. Anyway, one thing you can already think about is in general if you are going to have evil gods and how many. There are different possibilities, all of which make for good settings, so it's up to your preferences. A few choices would be:
- more or less as many evil gods as there are good ones, the pantheon is roughly divided in two sides although the evil ones probably struggle also against themselves
- a single evil deity opposed to all the others and concentrating all evil matters (eventually there are minor evil deities at her service, but here I'm thinking only about the major gods)
- no evil deities, and evil worship is related to fiends and similar powerful beings

I think I will aim for approximately equal numbers of evil and good gods, though the numbers do not have to match exactly.

I mention this because it has an impact on the portfolios. For example, when you have to choose which deity rules over death, the typical options are to either make it an evil deity which hates life, or make it a good/neutral deity who protects the dead and preserve the normal lifecycle.

Well, if you want to compile a list of portfolios, I would start thinking about large and important matters for the people in the world, such as the following (and possible associated alignment):

Nature/Fertility/Prosperity/Earth - good
Wisdom/Justice - lawful good
Wealth/Crafts/Commerce - neutral
Beauty/Love/Arts - chaotic good
Family/Protection/Home - good
War/Conquest/Nobility/Rulership - lawful
Death - any evil or any neutral

This is actually a very good list - I like it a lot. It even matches the 'mystical number 7'. ;) Another 'mystical number' is 12, so I will probably aim for one of these two numbers to denote the total number of the 'High Gods' in the pantheon. Number 12 is particularly interesting, since it allows for 12 'normal High Gods' and one (13th - another mystical number) renegade 'High God'. The 12 'normal High Gods' would be good, evil and neutral and some would have conflictual relations, but all would shun the 13th God. I am thinking that the 13th God could be a God of 'Perversion/Corruption'. Hmm, seems like an idea with at least some potential, but I have not yet fixed my mind on it yet.

Note that I haven't written Magic as a major group. Normally the deity of magic is always a major one, but just to suggest something different for once :p I'll make it a minor deity, which the majority of people in the world won't worship since it doesn't affect their lives. This can be very different in your setting of course.

Actually, despite including it in my initial list of examples, I am now thinking too that perhaps Magic should not be covered by any god. Magic could be an independent force.

After that, you can write down a second list of minor portfolio entries which can be associated to the groups above. Whenever you find one that doesn't fit to the main groups above according to your taste, you can make it a minor deity. I'll try to show an example of associations as well (by no means a complete list), although each has obviously multiple choices! The ones with "none" will go into minor deities:

Animals - with nature
Darkness - none
Destruction - none
Disease - none
Duty - with justice
Healing - with family
Hunting - with war
Illusion - none
Knowledge - with wisdom
Lies - none
Luck - none
Magic - none
Murder - none
Plants - with nature
Sea - none
Secrets - none
Storm - none
Strength - with war
Travel - none
Theft - none
Tyranny - with war
Wind - none

The portfolios destined to minor deities can be grouped together e.g. in this way:

Darkness/Disease/Murder - an evil minor deity at the service of death (if evil)
Illusion/Lies/Theft - a chaotic minor deity about dishonorable methods of achieving your aims, whether good or evil
Destruction/Storm - a minor CE deity at the service of death (if evil)
Luck/Magic/Secrets - a neutral or CN minor deity, emphasising the wild nature of magic
Sea/Travel/Wind - a neutral deity in service of the god of wealth

Hmm, this is pretty good - I may well follow this approach.

Finally if you want elements to have a religious role, you could associates all elements to the deity of nature, or you could associate each element to a different major deity, or you could make specific minor deities for each element, or you could just assign elements to the rulers of elemental beings but not deities.

Similar approach can be used for seasons, maybe each season is associated to a different deity, or otherwise all to nature.

I am thinking these would all be subsumed in nature. Now that I think about it... would it make sense to make nature an 'independent force' without a god, just like magic could be?

Note that when you choose your favourite associations, you also set a hint about culture in your setting.
For example, normally hunting is associated with nature to emphasise that it is a normal part of natural life; for a change, I associated it with war, and suddenly it becomes more related to civilized life and possibly opposed by nature worshippers.
By adding tyranny to war, I opened the possibility of slightly leaning the war god to LE: it can still be lawful and socially accepted, but people will argue about whether war brings tyranny as a consequence (often in a setting there are separate deities for LG war and LE war).
By associating healing with the deity of family and home I have indirectly taken it away from the nature deity, possibly suggesting that nature priests may consider healing ambiguous: perhaps they may always cure people which were hurt by weapons or other people, but they may be less willful to heal/resurrect people hurt by a more "natural" source, as it is considered to be part of normal natural lifecycle.

Good ideas :)
 

spyscribe said:
My DM did something similar in our current campaign. The world has four gods (technically, 2 gods and 2 goddesses). They cover the four seasons, Good, Evil, Law, and Chaos... and everything else. There's a sidebar that discusses it in my storyhour http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=775988&postcount=20

It might help you as a jumping off point.

An interesting read and I notice that you are also leaving magic as a separate force ungoverned by deities.
 

Hmm, another question that ties into this heavily and which I will need to answer is what happens to souls after death. It could be the D&D standard of each god getting the soul of his worshippers or something different.
 

What if, the more souls a god got, the stronger he became? An evil god can encourage his worshippers to breed like crazy. Then when the followers get mowed down by the good guys, it would add to his power.
 

DongShenYin said:
What if, the more souls a god got, the stronger he became? An evil god can encourage his worshippers to breed like crazy. Then when the followers get mowed down by the good guys, it would add to his power.

Yes! I love the first part - the second does not really apply since all these followers would eventually die anyway and gods are patient. ;) It could be especially interesting if not all souls were equal in this regard and some were more valuable. :)
 

I was thinking more in terms of a massive, endgame war.

The evil god creates hundreds of thousands of fierce, but basically weak, fighters. He sends them against the good guys. The good guys slaughter the fighters, sending their souls to the evil god. The evil god, now charged up, attacks and kills the good god, who hadn't had that many followers die/ was busy answering prayers/didn't expect the evil god's attack. Evil god kills good god, evil god wins. The end.

Man, I AM evil. Must be a GM thing. Or lack of sleep.
 

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