D&D 5E Design Debate: 13th-level PCs vs. 6- to 8-Encounter Adventuring Day

[BoldItalic]

Now I have to go read if Rary's telepathic bond allows communication from a different plane.

'Fraid not - unlimited distance but not across planes. It's good if the party all enter the rift together but can't be used for scouting into the rift. Sending might work for you, though, if you just want a single message.

 

[Celtavian]

'Fraid not - unlimited distance but not across planes. It's good if the party all enter the rift together but can't be used for scouting into the rift. Sending might work for you, though, if you just want a single message.

Didn't memorize sending. I'll have to tough it out.

 

[Celtavian]

Aggregate Resource Report

Time allotted: 4:55 minutes
Time used: 1 hour 41 minutes 2 round


Pre-encounter: Wizard: 1 5th level slot to use teleportation circle from device.
10 minutes to cast ritual version of Rary's Telepathic Bond.

Encounter 1
Eldritch Knight: Hps: 120/106 Bolts used: 17 (1 recovered) Spell slots used: 0
Bard: Bard: 107/107 Bard slots Used: 1 3rd Inspiration: 4/3 Warlock Spell Slots: 2/2 (2nd level)
Paladin: Hps: 120/96 Slots used: 2 1st Channel Divinity: 1/1 Divine Sense: 5/5 Lay on hands: 60/60
Wizard: Hps: 93/92 Arcane Ward: 31/0 Slots used: 1 4th/1 5th Arcane Recovery: 6/6 levels (requires short rest; used once per long rest)
Cleric: 133/89 Channel Divinity: 2/2 Spell slots used: 0

Resources used: 17 bolts, 1 3rd level slot, 1 inspiration, 2 1st level slots, Arcane Ward, 1 4th level slot.
Damage received: 14 (EK) + 24 (paladin) +1 (wizard) +44 (cleric) = 83
Time use: 6 minutes
Description: 5 rounds battle (assume minute to get organized post-combat)/5 minute room search including giants, teleportation circle, and general search of any interesting nooks and crannies as well as habitation of area (Not much time, but hopefully Flamestrike didn't hide anything interesting in the area to help us. The gnome's passive 25 Investigation generally allows fast, effective searches, but it's easy to miss well hidden things if you don't look in the right place.


Travel Time: 1 hour running like heroes of legend to save the world. (It's hard not to enjoy the scenario Flamestrike has set up. It's definitely intense.)

Entering the Portal: Investigation, discussion, and Rary's as ritual. Time used: 25 minutes 1 round

 

[Celtavian]

Encounter 2: Round 1 (Surprise)

Surprise Round: Slaad and Jubali only ones that can act.

DM modifications: I'm going to set up the death slaad a little bit different than Flamestrike. One of them will be 60 feet from the door and one will be 70 feet. This ensures no one can stealth by the slaad. They are both invisible. As soon as Dom and Ryken enter, the death slaad are alerted to someone entering. They will wait until the group enters as a whole with Jubali spotting the shimmering outlines in the gloom with her 21 Passive Perception with Devilsight. She tries to alert the party, but too late. A surprise round occurs in favor of the death slaad.

The slaad are both going to cast spells. They are invisible. This means they can't be seen casting to use counterspell against them. Invisibility does not drop until the slaad attacks or casts a spell. I go with the idea that it means completion of the attack or casting, since it would specifie initiates an attack or starts to cast a spell. I usually give one attack or spell cast before invisibility drops. So double incoming fireballs.

Initiative:
Jubali 22
Tim 22
Slaad 2: 17
Dom: 16
Seebo: 15
Ryken: 10
Slaad 1: 5

Starting position: The party has entered as a group quickly given no indication was given that it takes an action to enter the rift. So they are two ranks with Dom and Ryken in the front rank and the back three spread behind them. The death slaad are diagonal about 10 feet apart with one at 60 feet watching the door closely and one 70 feet back near the tunnel detecting anything coming the other way. They attack immediately.

Bard: Bard: 107/93 Bard slots Used: 1st: 4/4 2nd: 3/3 3rd: 3/1 4th: 3/3 5th: 2/2 3rd Inspiration: 4/3 Warlock Spell Slots: 2/2 (2nd level) Gem of Seeing: Charges: 3/2:
Active Effects: Truesight active 120 feet (No concentration-great magic item)
Free action: Bard loudly states just below a shout: Invisible enemies in the gloom.
Action: Activate Gem of Seeing.
Free action: Two toad creatures.
Movement: Move forward 15 feet. This puts her in range for Cutting Words and counterspell.

Eldritch Knight: Hps: 120/77 Bolts used: 17 (1 recovered) Spell slots used: 1st: 4/4 2nd: 3/3 3rd: 2/2
No action.
Can take reactions.

Death Slaad 2 Hps 170/170 Innates Spells: Fireball Per day: 2/1
Starts in the 60 foot range.
Free action telepathy: Burn enemies near door. Woman on left.
Action: Cast fireball.
Jubali uses reaction to counterspell fireball.
Move: Hold position to hit them again.

Cleric: 133/75 Channel Divinity: 2/2 Spell slots used: 1st: 4/4 2nd: 3/3 3rd: 3/3 4th: 3/3 5th: 2/2 6th: 1/1 7th: 1/1
No actions. Can take reactions.

Wizard: Hps: 93/78 Arcane Ward: 31/0 Slots used: 1st: 4/3 2nd: 3/3 3rd: 3/3 4th: 3/2 5th: 2/1 6th: 1/1 7th: 1/1 Arcane Recovery: 6/6 levels (requires short rest; used once per long rest)
No actions. Can take reactions.

Paladin: Hps: 120/82 Slots used: 2 1st Channel Divinity: 1/1 Divine Sense: 5/5 Lay on hands: 60/60
No actions. Can take reactions.

Death salad 1: Hps 170/170 Spells: Fireball: 2/1 Starts 70 feet back.
Free action telepathy: Gas them to drive them into us.
Action: fireball. Hits entire party. DC 15 Dex save. Damage: 8d6 fire (6,6,3,2,2,3,5,2)=29
Move: Hold position. They want to hit them again before the party can close.

Saves (all in paladin aura):
Bard: 15+6=21 Dam: 14
Ftr: 4+9=13 Dam: 29
Cleric: 15+4=19 Dam: 14
Wizard: 7+6=13 Dam: 14 Reaction: Absorb Elements: 1st level slot. Half damage.
Paladin: 20+4=21 Dam: 14

 

[BoldItalic]

Surprise Round: Slaad and Jubali only ones that can act.

DM modifications: I'm going to set up the death slaad a little bit different than Flamestrike. One of them will be 60 feet from the door and one will be 70 feet. This ensures no one can stealth by the slaad. They are both invisible. As soon as Dom and Ryken enter, the death slaad are alerted to someone entering. They will wait until the group enters as a whole with Jubali spotting the shimmering outlines in the gloom with her 31 Passive Perception. She tries to alert the party, but too late. A surprise round occurs in favor of the death slaad.

Good luck

I'm playing it with no surprise because my diviner has given himself an hour of truesight and I reckon he can alert the others telepathically to the presence of the slaadi before initiative is rolled. Is it worth paying a level-6 slot to avoid surprise? We shall see

 

[Flamestrike]

Intrestingly sending a rogue through first to scout it out isnt the worst idea ressource wise (as longas ther est of the party follow up).

With dex save proficiency, evasion and uncanny dodge, you can ride out more than a few fireballs on your own.

With all three groups sent through, there is gonna be at least 1 or 2 PCs that are surprised, and at least 1 that isnt.

And yep - no countering a spell cast by someone who's invisible

 

[Celtavian]

Good luck

I'm playing it with no surprise because my diviner has given himself an hour of truesight and I reckon he can alert the others telepathically to the presence of the slaadi before initiative is rolled. Is it worth paying a level-6 slot to avoid surprise? We shall see

I would only allow this as a DM if your diviner won initiative versus the slaad. You wouldn't be able to alert anyone until your action. Rary's does not allow you to provide the group with such information with any greater speed than if you were talking and that would occur on your turn.

 

[BoldItalic]

I would only allow this as a DM if your diviner won initiative versus the slaad. You wouldn't be able to alert anyone until your action. Rary's does not allow you to provide the group with such information with any greater speed than if you were talking and that would occur on your turn.

Yes, that's a reasonable call.

When do you roll for initiative? It's a tricky one. The slaadi have 60ft range of vision so that aren't aware of the PCs and don't formulate the intention to fling fireballs at them until the PCs, having lined up along the back wall 65ft away, start to step forwards from the portal. That's when I would determine surprise and roll for initiative. But the wizard has 120ft range of truesight, so he sees the slaadi before they start doing that. Indeed, I might even allow the slaadi to be surprised if the PCs do it right - stand very still, communicate silently and formulate an intention to attack. In my play-through, though, they didn't do that. They didn't surprise the slaadi.

I didn't think surprising the slaadi would be quite in the spirit of this experiment

 

[Azurewraith]

Yes, that's a reasonable call.

When do you roll for initiative? It's a tricky one. The slaadi have 60ft range of vision so that aren't aware of the PCs and don't formulate the intention to fling fireballs at them until the PCs, having lined up along the back wall 65ft away, start to step forwards from the portal. That's when I would determine surprise and roll for initiative. But the wizard has 120ft range of truesight, so he sees the slaadi before they start doing that. Indeed, I might even allow the slaadi to be surprised if the PCs do it right - stand very still, communicate silently and formulate an intention to attack. In my play-through, though, they didn't do that. They didn't surprise the slaadi.

I didn't think surprising the slaadi would be quite in the spirit of this experiment

I think surprising them would be as were assuming the PC's are genetically engineered commandos with 30+years on the job.

 

[Celtavian]

Yes, that's a reasonable call.

When do you roll for initiative? It's a tricky one. The slaadi have 60ft range of vision so that aren't aware of the PCs and don't formulate the intention to fling fireballs at them until the PCs, having lined up along the back wall 65ft away, start to step forwards from the portal. That's when I would determine surprise and roll for initiative. But the wizard has 120ft range of truesight, so he sees the slaadi before they start doing that. Indeed, I might even allow the slaadi to be surprised if the PCs do it right - stand very still, communicate silently and formulate an intention to attack. In my play-through, though, they didn't do that. They didn't surprise the slaadi.

I didn't think surprising the slaadi would be quite in the spirit of this experiment

That's why I layered the slaad. With 60 foot blindsight, no cover, and them invisible, I figured they would guaranteed be right up on the door to ensure they don't miss anyone entering and would force immediate initiative. Maybe Flamestrike set them up 70 feet away to be kind, I don't know. I figure as a DM I want to run it as ruthless as possible because that is generally what I do. Ruthless but appropriate is what I prefer.

Here's how I would run your situation. If you entered using Stealth, the lowest roll would have to beat their passive perception. Even if they can't see you, they can hear you. As soon as they hear something at the door, they advance for combat moving until they detect someone, then unleash their deadly AoE. I would roll initiative as soon as you enter if the slaad pick up on your stealth roll. If they don't, then you have a chance to surprise them, at least the ones you can see. Then you just to imagine how you would move to wait for the slaad to break invis and draw them in for your party to hammer.