Determining Experience and Rewards for overcoming challenges

[Endur]

How do you determine experience and rewards for challanges?

Example:
Party A encounters challenge 1. It takes 3 hours for party A to succeed.

Party B encounters challenge 1. It takes 5 minutes for party B to succeed.

Suppose that party A and B have the same level (although classes and gear are different).

Should both parties get the same exp for overcoming the same challenge? Should party A get more experience for over-coming a more difficult challenge? Should party B get more experience for being more efficient in over-coming the challenge?

Party B, since it only took five minutes, might get to over-come several challenges in the time it took party A to overcome challenge 1. Is it fair for party B to obtain several rewards in the time it took party A to obtain a single reward?

 

[groklynn]

How do you determine experience and rewards for challanges?

Maybe it's time to give levels instead of xp? Why do you need some additional mess in your character sheet ? In some non-dnd games it works and they are a little bit younger than d'n'd and have some fans...

 

[JRRNeiklot]

How do you determine experience and rewards for challanges?

Example:
Party A encounters challenge 1. It takes 3 hours for party A to succeed.

Party B encounters challenge 1. It takes 5 minutes for party B to succeed.

Suppose that party A and B have the same level (although classes and gear are different).

Should both parties get the same exp for overcoming the same challenge? Should party A get more experience for over-coming a more difficult challenge? Should party B get more experience for being more efficient in over-coming the challenge?

Party B, since it only took five minutes, might get to over-come several challenges in the time it took party A to overcome challenge 1. Is it fair for party B to obtain several rewards in the time it took party A to obtain a single reward?

Why should party A get penalized for being better than party A? No Harrison Bergeron's please.

 

[satori01]

I have played In and DM 'd for some very determined groups that coordinated tactics and strategies to take out rooms like Swat teams, Rogue scouts the door, everyone readies ranged attacks, door opens, the wizard casts silence, everyone shoots the same target, rinse repeat.

Should this group be penalized for the coordination? Why should another group that maybe played in a less efficient manner get a boost?

Keep it like 4E XP, XP, Treasure, giving monsters static HP or dmg expressions are the 1st thing DMs will tinker with.

 

[GreyICE]

I might give party B bonus XP.

The fact of the matter is if Party A takes 3 hours to complete a challenge, they are doing it wrong. I don't know WHAT they are doing wrong without more detail, but they are clearly not working optimally. The last thing I want to do is have them level up and introduce more complexity for their obviously overwhelmed brains. Instead I would work with them to make sure that they understand the rules, clarify things, and tamp down on personalities that slow things down.

Party B is clearly cooking with gas. They probably would appreciate the additional complexity and challenge another level would bring, and in any case are clearly very comfortable and competent with their characters and themselves as a group. In that case I can give them bonus XP for playing exceptionally, and speed them along.

 

[Lanefan]

How do you determine experience and rewards for challanges?

Example:
Party A encounters challenge 1. It takes 3 hours for party A to succeed.

Party B encounters challenge 1. It takes 5 minutes for party B to succeed.

Suppose that party A and B have the same level (although classes and gear are different).

Should both parties get the same exp for overcoming the same challenge?

Assuming the challenge is the same in both cases, the *characters who participated* in resolving it should split the same total number of XP.

Party B, since it only took five minutes, might get to over-come several challenges in the time it took party A to overcome challenge 1. Is it fair for party B to obtain several rewards in the time it took party A to obtain a single reward?

Of course it is.

Also, who's to say in the next challenge the roles won't be reversed, with B sailing through while A gets bogged down?

The fact of the matter is if Party A takes 3 hours to complete a challenge, they are doing it wrong. I don't know WHAT they are doing wrong without more detail, but they are clearly not working optimally. The last thing I want to do is have them level up and introduce more complexity for their obviously overwhelmed brains. Instead I would work with them to make sure that they understand the rules, clarify things, and tamp down on personalities that slow things down.

Remind me never to play in your game, if that's how you look at things.

What's not stated in the original question is how much fun was had by all involved during the challenge. If a party takes 3 hours to get through something simple but are having fun in the process, let 'em play; as they are NOT "doing it wrong".

And by "tamp down on personalities that slow things down" do you mean player personalities (good luck with that) or character personalities (you want all the characters to work like a machine)?

Lanefan

 

[GreyICE]

[MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]: I mean player personalities. If a simple encounter takes 3 hours to resolve, then something has gone wrong. Period.

Maybe there's the guy who doesn't read his cards and spends his entire turn sitting there shuffling his cards around, carefully reading his powers (which were the same they were last turn). I'd take him aside and suggest he use the other turns as an opportunity to plan what he's going to do so he can resolve his turn promptly.

Maybe there's the guy who can't stop reading through the rules manual. I solved that, I banned all books from the table. If you need to check a book, do it after the game. You can always ask me (4E helped this by having rules that were 10x less fiddly than 3.5E).

Maybe there's the guy who wants to disrupt the entire proceedings by discussing what was on TV last night, or the trailer for the new Avengers movie. I allow a certain amount of table talk, but sometimes it gets excessive, and you have to keep it moving.

Maybe the party just doesn't know how to function as a group and can't figure out how to fight effectively. If that's the case, they need to learn, in character and out, but they're not going to be helped by being given another level's worth of powers and feats.


The fact of the matter is an average 4E encounter takes around 30 minutes to an hour. Some take a tad longer for very complex fights. Three hours is so far beyond what I would ever expect that there is a serious problem there. 4E combats are designed to last 5 rounds. That's 36 minutes per round. THIRTY SIX MINUTES PER ROUND.

There is a problem there. A big, huge problem.

 

[the Jester]

If a simple encounter takes 3 hours to resolve, then something has gone wrong. Period.

For certain playstyles.

For instance, what if the encounter takes 3 hours because the pcs engage the monsters with social skills and change it from a combat to a protracted negotation/roleplaying encounter?

As long as everyone's having fun, nobody's doing it wrong.

 

[Ahnehnois]

How do you determine experience and rewards for challanges?

I don't.

 

[Lanefan]

[MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]: I mean player personalities. If a simple encounter takes 3 hours to resolve, then something has gone wrong. Period.

Maybe there's the guy who doesn't read his cards and spends his entire turn sitting there shuffling his cards around, carefully reading his powers (which were the same they were last turn). I'd take him aside and suggest he use the other turns as an opportunity to plan what he's going to do so he can resolve his turn promptly.

Cards? Must be a 4e thing...

Maybe there's the guy who can't stop reading through the rules manual. I solved that, I banned all books from the table. If you need to check a book, do it after the game. You can always ask me (4E helped this by having rules that were 10x less fiddly than 3.5E).

I'd rather have the player look it up while I'm doing something else. Besides, I don't have all the rules memorized so all that would happen is I'd be pulling out the book instead of the player. No net gain.

Agreed about the table talk, though.

Maybe the party just doesn't know how to function as a group and can't figure out how to fight effectively. If that's the case, they need to learn, in character and out, but they're not going to be helped by being given another level's worth of powers and feats.

Perhaps, but then again I don't much like fast-track level bumps anyway. Other than that, let them make mistakes.

The fact of the matter is an average 4E encounter takes around 30 minutes to an hour. Some take a tad longer for very complex fights. Three hours is so far beyond what I would ever expect that there is a serious problem there. 4E combats are designed to last 5 rounds. That's 36 minutes per round. THIRTY SIX MINUTES PER ROUND.

There is a problem there. A big, huge problem.

Of course, it all depends on the complexity of the fight, the party size and level, what the opponents can do, etc.

Most of the time, when it's a normal party vs. some ordinary foes, things go reasonably quickly. But if it's a larger party (mine average about 8-11 characters) vs. foes who can do more than just stand there and fight, things slow down.

The absolute worst are when two mid-to-high level adventuring parties (or equivalent) are fighting each other; at that point we're potentially getting into hours-per-round territory*. I speak from experience, and this is in 1e.

* - the longest battle I've ever run - party of 12 PCs vs. about 25 enemies all of whom were levelled in at least one class - had a single round that took about 2.5 hours to resolve. The whole battle took almost 3 sessions.

Lan-"from what I've seen 3e would be even slower"-efan