Infiniti2000
First Post
I don't agree. I don't think an 18 (pre-racial) is ever needed and therefore not best. But, that's a different thread and covered in detail elsewhere.
Dexterity Error in PHB - in my view.
- Thread starter Istar
- Start date
What the barabarian should have done was throw the half-elf Bard through the door.
As for DMs readying actions before 'combat' starts, well it all depends on what has happened before hand, how much the monsters know, and the situation at hand.
Imagine the PCs have busted down a door (making a hellish racket doing so) and slaughtered a few unwary guards. But they fail to notice the Gnome skulking invisible in the shadows. They also fail to notice he slips out of the room, down a short corridor to the mess hall, where the rest of the gang is having lunch. The PCs took a few hits and wasted some encounter powers in order to take down the guards fast. They have no interest in rushing in any further. So they take 5 minutes to get their breath back. Pretty 'standard scenario'.
So what do the Gnome and the now alert guards do during those 5 minutes... well they all get their weapons from the armory off to the side of the mess hall, darken the torches at the back of the hall, where they turn the tables to give themselves some cover, throw the benches together near the doorway to make a make-shift barricade. The captain whispers for them to ready their bows: ''Anything that comes through the door, shoot it... shoot it dead!''
So that is what they are going to walk into... Action, reaction. The world is alive and dynamic. Your not going to catch the monsters with their pants down every time just because you have high dexterity. And any rules interpretation that dictates actions can't be prepared until combat begins regardless of the circumstances is at best absurd.
Not for off what happened, we just could quite kill off the last enemy and they kept getting away and alerting / strengthening the next encounter.
Its a bit tough I thought, but you do move one at a time and the first person thru the door....
Can you delay so a group of you move through an entrance and position yourselves at the same time to spread such an attack.
I find when some of the party move into position, one of the enemy groups move and cut them off from the rest of the party...
Can be nasty if the main tank gets left behind..
Crazy_Dragon
First Post
IMO 16/16/whatever is best if you sync your racial and class attributes, it gives 2x18s.
Initiative is important, if you have two strikers and one dazes the big bad and the deals huge damage then the boss is going down fast.
On readied, if you are dealing with intelligent monsters (12+ Int) they should prepare if they can, but if you get like 25* perception check you should be able to realize that whoever crosses the door is going to have a "fun" time AKA living quiver. On the other hand my DM tried pulling this on us, but my 15 perception/10 insight made me realize that the best solution is two grenades, slam door and run
. Or turn the defender into a "suicide" bomber loaded with bombs that they are resistant to 
Initiative is important, if you have two strikers and one dazes the big bad and the deals huge damage then the boss is going down fast.
On readied, if you are dealing with intelligent monsters (12+ Int) they should prepare if they can, but if you get like 25* perception check you should be able to realize that whoever crosses the door is going to have a "fun" time AKA living quiver. On the other hand my DM tried pulling this on us, but my 15 perception/10 insight made me realize that the best solution is two grenades, slam door and run
. Or turn the defender into a "suicide" bomber loaded with bombs that they are resistant to 
eamon
Explorer
I guess the fundamental assumption behind the surprise/ready rules is that you cannot keep up a hair-trigger response indefinitely. At some point you'll need to blink. Also note that readied reactions are specific - they don't work well as a form of ambush when the other party expects you because it's hard to predict what they'll do and thus hard to prepare for a specific countermeasure - one that you can trigger fast enough to qualify for the readied action rules (i.e, a specific trigger for a specific action).
Generally, if the party is not aware of the ambush, the surprise mechanic is more appropriate and more powerful to the ambushers (more general, CA, and if you're lucky with initiative another full turn as well before the other team acts).
On the other hand, entering a room full of armed opponents through a five-foot door simply is dangerous - you might be better off standing around the corner, waiting for them to emerge and fling in the fireballs while waiting (so to speak). Or, close the door again, wait, and prepare to all go in "simultaneously" with guns blazing - mechanically, reroll initiative by trying to surprise them - they may expect you're coming, but can't see you and need to gain initiative before readying.
Usually (not always), I also give hints that readied actions are in play - someone crouching for a jump, or lifting his weapon to find the right moment to strike; that kind of thing. It's more appropriate in-game; if a bunch of Orcs are about to smack you if you step foot through the door - then they're obviously standing ready, staring at you, and holding their weapon such that they're ready to hit at a moments notice or they've nocked an arrow but not yet let it fly, and further, they're not doing anything else (mechanically: used a standard action to do nothing obvious) - i.e., visibly concentrated and visibly readying an action. After all, the PC's need to tell you when and what they're readying too, so it's not like you can't do the same for the monsters - and most DM's (myself included) tend to metagame too much by accident anyhow (e.g. by avoiding abilities that the monsters shouldn't really know about - a fighter's combat challenge vs. shifting, say, but more in general, by habitually fighting the same party over and over and so playing the monsters "too smart" in the sense that they react too well even against what might be fairly surprising PC tactics).
Abusing readied actions as a form of surprise is bad practice from a metagame perspective too - PC's can do the same, and before you know it, you'll have readied actions triggering off other readied actions and a total mess ensuing - e.g. the fighter plods through the door while the orcs ready an action to charge him when he steps through the door - but the PC barbarian has readied an action to charge the first Orc he sees moving, and the wizard has readied a chilling cloud to surround the barbarian etc... Worse, the barbarian is acting outside of his turn, so if indeed the orcs continue their charge, he get's OA's, so even more triggered actions! Down that rabbit hole lies madness. Better to just give a surprise round, and if in the exceptional case they use that surprise round to ready an action, say that the orcs look ready to pounce (without too many details) so the PC's don't get the feeling you're screwing them over by omitting vital observations.
Generally, if the party is not aware of the ambush, the surprise mechanic is more appropriate and more powerful to the ambushers (more general, CA, and if you're lucky with initiative another full turn as well before the other team acts).
On the other hand, entering a room full of armed opponents through a five-foot door simply is dangerous - you might be better off standing around the corner, waiting for them to emerge and fling in the fireballs while waiting (so to speak). Or, close the door again, wait, and prepare to all go in "simultaneously" with guns blazing - mechanically, reroll initiative by trying to surprise them - they may expect you're coming, but can't see you and need to gain initiative before readying.
Usually (not always), I also give hints that readied actions are in play - someone crouching for a jump, or lifting his weapon to find the right moment to strike; that kind of thing. It's more appropriate in-game; if a bunch of Orcs are about to smack you if you step foot through the door - then they're obviously standing ready, staring at you, and holding their weapon such that they're ready to hit at a moments notice or they've nocked an arrow but not yet let it fly, and further, they're not doing anything else (mechanically: used a standard action to do nothing obvious) - i.e., visibly concentrated and visibly readying an action. After all, the PC's need to tell you when and what they're readying too, so it's not like you can't do the same for the monsters - and most DM's (myself included) tend to metagame too much by accident anyhow (e.g. by avoiding abilities that the monsters shouldn't really know about - a fighter's combat challenge vs. shifting, say, but more in general, by habitually fighting the same party over and over and so playing the monsters "too smart" in the sense that they react too well even against what might be fairly surprising PC tactics).
Abusing readied actions as a form of surprise is bad practice from a metagame perspective too - PC's can do the same, and before you know it, you'll have readied actions triggering off other readied actions and a total mess ensuing - e.g. the fighter plods through the door while the orcs ready an action to charge him when he steps through the door - but the PC barbarian has readied an action to charge the first Orc he sees moving, and the wizard has readied a chilling cloud to surround the barbarian etc... Worse, the barbarian is acting outside of his turn, so if indeed the orcs continue their charge, he get's OA's, so even more triggered actions! Down that rabbit hole lies madness. Better to just give a surprise round, and if in the exceptional case they use that surprise round to ready an action, say that the orcs look ready to pounce (without too many details) so the PC's don't get the feeling you're screwing them over by omitting vital observations.
