TSR Did TSR Sue Regularly?

Shannon Appelcline (Designers & Dragons) talks about it here! With infographics!

"Every company interacts with the rest of the industry in a different way. For Chaosium it's been more than 40 years of licensing, while Target Games created and defined roleplaying in its home country of Sweden. Dave Nalle's Ragnarok Enterprises instead influenced designers and publishers through interactions in A&Eand Abyss. As for TSR, the founder of our industry: as wags have put it: they sue regularly."

Advanced Designers & Dragons #47: TSR Connections: Licenses & Lawsuits - RPGnet

They also sued WotC once!

 

[Rob Kuntz]

Great article by Shannon! I recall talking with Mayfair Games at DragonCon #1, 1987, while I was pushing Creations Unlimited AD&D compatible products that the Dragon Magazine refused to let me advertise in the 'zine. Mayfair told me if I needed any legal-end information they'd freely offer it as they had spent, by that point, $14,000 in legal fees battling TSR.

 

[Zardnaar]

Hindsight it's amazing they lasted as long as they did.

 

[Davies]

If there's one other interesting lesson here, it's that Wizards of the Coast is likely sitting on the rights to a treasure-trove of unavailable classic RPG material, including Dragonquest, Universe, Role Aids, And Dangerous Journeys.

... "classic" is perhaps too strong of a word, particularly when it comes to 'Dangerous Journeys.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

... "classic" is perhaps too strong of a word, particularly when it comes to 'Dangerous Journeys.

Brutal but fair. One of the great disappointments of my late childhood/early teen years was going to an obscure RPG shop in Oxford, which had really pristine copies of a lot of stuff I hadn't seen before (this was in the early '90s), and one of those things was Dangerous Journeys, and it was by GARY GYGAX so how could it possibly be bad right? (This was like the year before I read his utterly terrible "how to DM" book I think).

My bro and I got it back to where we were staying and were reading through it and... oh boy. It was the very first time the idea of "needless symmetry" occurred to me too, when looking at the way the attributes were d one.

 

[darjr]

@Ruin Explorer I feel that.
Still I think there are folks, like me, who would love a bunch of that product made available.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

@Ruin Explorer I feel that.
Still I think there are folks, like me, who would love a bunch of that product made available.

Like Role Aids. Unfortunately I have to agree about DJ, but that's the risk all creators take, me included. But back to TSR and Lawsuits & Licenses...

 

[el-remmen]

Not to make this a "Dangerous Journeys" bashing thread, but the copy I used to have was given to me by someone who was like "This is the most disappointing garbage." I browsed it and then had in storage until one of my gaming book purges of the early 21st century.

 

[el-remmen]

Like Role Aids. Unfortunately I have to agree about DJ, but that's the risk all creators take, me included. But back to TSR and Lawsuits & Licenses...

The couple of "Role Aids" things I got, I liked just to mine for ideas that were not necessarily standard to D&D at the time.

 

[Rob Kuntz]

The couple of "Role Aids" things I got, I liked just to mine for ideas that were not necessarily standard to D&D at the time.

Yes. They were good for that. I've been seeking a particular one in the line. I wonder if there's a comprehensive and sequential Listing of their addies and SBs online. Will have to search when time allows. Can't remember the title but would sure know it by the description.

 

[Davies]

Yes. They were good for that. I've been seeking a particular one in the line. I wonder if there's a comprehensive and sequential Listing of their addies and SBs online. Will have to search when time allows. Can't remember the title but would sure know it by the description.

I think the RPGnet Index listing for the series, and the individual product descriptions, would probably help -- Role Aids Listing - RPGnet RPG Game Index

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I think the RPGnet Index listing for the series, and the individual product descriptions, would probably help -- Role Aids Listing - RPGnet RPG Game Index

Thankee! Robilar will fly over a check it out...

 

[Rob Kuntz]

I think the RPGnet Index listing for the series, and the individual product descriptions, would probably help -- Role Aids Listing - RPGnet RPG Game Index

You have earned Knight OMS status in the Castle & Crusade Society (which I can confer as its last executive), for I found the title on that list and that I've been wanting to acquire for many years. Now to find the gem.

 

[Shiroiken]

back to TSR and Lawsuits & Licenses...

That seems like a mini-game they should have put in The Dragon

 

[Rob Kuntz]

That seems like a mini-game they should have put in The Dragon

Hehe. Well, they may have s-d the pooch, but they left some good offspring behind, no? I quit in 1976 (but was made job offers in 1980 and 1985 to return) so I take no responsibility for their antics. This article actually surprised me as I learned of some I had not been aware of.

 

[Stormonu]

Hahn, I wasn’t aware Role Aids had been bought out/discontinued. I’d picked up a handful of supplements ages ago, but after perusing them never actually used them.

I’m also a bit relieved to find out that I was not the only one disappointed with Dangerous Journeys. Just didn’t strike a chord with me.

Back in the 90’s, I got in on the wave of making your own web pages, and was very miffed by the TSR attitude that essentially made posting my homebrew material impossible. I hate to say this, but I’m glad the company - or at least its leadership - is gone.

(Also, am I thinking of the wrong company, but in the end didn’t they end up suing their own lawyer, trying to pin the Random House fiasco on them? My sources of that information are unreliable at best...)

 

[darjr]

@Rob Kuntz which title are you looking for? I might have it.

 

[darjr]

Anyone here involved in any of the TSR lawsuits? On either side?

 

[Morrus]

Anyone here involved in any of the TSR lawsuits? On either side?

I’ve had letters from WotC’s lawyers more than once. Does that count?

 

[MGibster]

Brutal but fair. One of the great disappointments of my late childhood/early teen years was going to an obscure RPG shop in Oxford, which had really pristine copies of a lot of stuff I hadn't seen before (this was in the early '90s), and one of those things was Dangerous Journeys, and it was by GARY GYGAX so how could it possibly be bad right? (This was like the year before I read his utterly terrible "how to DM" book I think).

I owned a copy of Cyborg Commando. Sometimes I wake up in cold sweats during the middle of the night shouting about cyborgs and Xenoborgs.