Difficult Character and Player

[Meridius]

I run a self tought up campaign as a rookie DM, as probably everyone, I have made and still make mistakes. When I started two years ago, it was a small group. I thought and still think I invited a good female friend, and I still think she declined. She said I never invited her, but alas, I let her on anyway. She's a good friend after all.

She does have her perks though, and she wanted quite a non-standard character. I run a 3.5e game, but she found herself to be too limited in the standard classes; she wanted to play a WoT d20 Initiate (and later multiclass into an initiate/aes sedai), and fool that I was, I allowed it.

Damage reduction galore, I toned down Harden Air, and run a VERY tight checkup on which 'weaves' (spells) she'll get. I ruled that Harden Air doesn't kill stuff. Fine, it worked, no 2-saves-and-you're-dead first level spells in my game please.

Yet it turned out I need to consider walls of air popping up continuously, and unbeknownst to me, I just kept on going. Because it's a large group, I rather use large groups to counter.

However, I didn't really notice that virtually all my adventure ideas revolve around how to make things interesting for the party, all the while letting her keep the idea she's actually useful. Thus I try to avoid having dungeons, and when I have them, they're closer to labyrinths. There's always one or two backdoors to any particular place, especially when an encounter is planned on that location.

Now I was talking to another of my players, and he told me I shouldn't let one spell or even her entire character be so much of an issue, and simply DO something about it. Tell her to get a standard character, or replace the faulty spell or spells with something useful to her.

I guess it's pretty much a point, and after she literally sank my maritime campaign by having my beautiful wooden sailing ships into blocks of air, I too am convinced that I should be doing something about it. Even though I've let it drag on for almost two years .

So I have a couple of questions:
- Do you have any experience with WoT characters in regular D&D settings?
- What would you do in this situation?
- Have I been too nice for the duration of this campaign in regards to her? (Note, my primary concern is that people have fun, which she has, and other players too, yet I can be quite desperate at times, and especially my maritime adventure series kind of 'sank' due to me overseeing the fact that she can sink ships with the damn weave. Though my other players didn't experience it as a failure luckily ).

Note:
Harden air is a variable level 'weave' (spell) which can solidify air. Common uses are: Trapping creatures (rendering single foes useless), making bridges, sealing off one or more corridors in a dungeon. Placing transparent cover.
One of the perks is that you get a single reflex save, and after that nothing helps. The spell can be 'tied off' and stay in effect for several days.

It's full potency? Succeeding a couple of saves, accidentally, and permanently ensnare a great wyrm at level 1. In the most extreme case, prior to my modification it could suffocate anything it successfully 'hit'.

Note2:
She is not bound by her oaths, which I stupidly allowed in my lack of knowledge and DM-experience.

 

[fba827]

I don't have any experience with WoT classes, so I can't speak to that answer/aspect of your question.

* how close are you to ending the current campaign? That could just solve your problem right there when everyone makes new PCs and you can everyone/anyone who asks to stick with the D&D classes. this is the least confrontational approach.

* if you need a more immediate fix, simply tell her (not in front of everyone), that the class is built for a different game system and you thought it would be okay but you understand now that it is causing some problems. so you need her to change her PC. and possibly help her build a similar PC using D&D rules (sounds like a 3.5 wizard or sorcerer to me) this is the most direct method (of course, her reaction at that point depends entirely on her personality.. it could be as simple as an 'okay' or a 'curse fest')

I have had my fair share of problem characters in my day. In such cases, I can usually just tell the player and we switch it to something else -- of course, i've (usually) been blessed with easy goign players.

I have had a couple problematic players as well (maybe not always them, personally, but something in the group setting made it problematic)... in such cases, my method for dealing with the person depends entirely on that player's personality and what i know of him/her, so I don't have any one solution for those instances.

 

[coyote6]

From what you wrote, it seems like the primary problem is that one spell, so maybe changing it would be enough?


Wheel of Time was, IIRC, based on 3.0e; spells like hold person & the like gave a single save, and were thus effectively "save or die". 3.5e added ongoing saves to a lot of lower-level spells like that, to make them less "save or die"; perhaps you should add similar saves to the spell.

 

[El Mahdi]

I can't really think of any way to "fix" the spell so it's not so dangerous other than suggesting you find something similiar in the standard D&D Players Handbook and do a swap (just reflavor the fluff). Or, you could simply swap it out for Balefire.

The first step in fixing this is to sit down with the player in question and talk about how this spell, and also her lack of adherence to the Oaths, are unbalancing your game. Ask her to come to a compromise with you. Other than that, I think the only other fix, short of swapping the spell out or adhering to the Oaths, would be to start introducing some Wheel of Time aspects to your campaign setting.

The major check and balance on Ais Sedai (including Initiates) in the Wheel of Time, is that they are bound by their oaths. If you are using a WoT character in a non-WoT world, you may have eliminated the one real control on an Initiate character. (Yes, I know an initiate hasn't necessarily taken the Oath on the Oath Rod yet, as your player's character also hasn't, but they are still taught to adhere to these oaths, they just aren't physically compelled due to the magic of the Oath Rod.) I'd start with beginning to enforce these. If she doesn't want to do it voluntarily, have a full fledged Ais Sedai "find" her. An Aes Sedai would treat her like a wayward or runaway child and take it upon herself to, at the least, reinstill some discipline in your recalcitrant Initiate. If the Initiate doesn't want to comply, have the Aes Sedai threaten to take her home, by force if necessary.

For an Aes Sedai in a non-WoT world/campaign setting, IMO adhering to the Oaths means only demons/devils, undead, liches, etc. would be fair game to attack. Any other creature can't be attacked unless, and until, the Initiate or her companions are being threatened, and then can only use what force is necessary. If she can avoid bloodshed or death of a monster/enemy, she is compelled to do just that, or at the very least attempt to disable.

Secondly, I'd start allowing all magic users and magical creatures (including Dragons) to sense when she is embracing the source. It's kind of like a Jedi sensing other Force users and uses of the Force. As a result of magic users suddenly sensing this strange new power, they are going to start to be curious and seek out this new source of power. Start letting your npc spellcasters and magical creatures start learning WoT weaves, especially Shield (cuts a magic user off from embracing the One Power for as long as the caster maintains the weave - and can be tied off).

The Wheel of Time campaign setting itself, provides checks and balances on wielders of the one power. Allowing one to roam a standard D&D world without those checks and balances is a recipe for disaster.


I hope some of this may have helped.

And welcome to ENWorld.

 

[DrunkonDuty]

I'd go with El-Mahdi's suggestions.

I'm going to assume you put a lot of work into that campaign having it written off like that by an unbalanced character isn't fun for you. Worse than no fun, it's anti-fun. Remember: you're a player too. Your fun counts as well. Having a whole campaign sunk by one PC and there first level spell... something is wrong there. Either the campaign has to change to fit that character (and you have other players who may or may not like that idea) or the character has to change to fit the campaign.

But since you're good friends you should be able to sit down and explain things and work out a compromise.

best of luck!

And welcome to ENWorld.

 

[Cyronax]

* if you need a more immediate fix, simply tell her (not in front of everyone), that the class is built for a different game system and you thought it would be okay but you understand now that it is causing some problems. so you need her to change her PC. and possibly help her build a similar PC using D&D rules (sounds like a 3.5 wizard or sorcerer to me) this is the most direct method (of course, her reaction at that point depends entirely on her personality.. it could be as simple as an 'okay' or a 'curse fest')

Fba827's advice sounds good on my count, but I also think that you should start dividing the WoT's options into individual spells. Forgive my inability to speak with in-rules jargon, but I remember that WoT spells were modifiable and had the ability to move up and down the power scale based upon its own ability to spend Psion-like Power Points.

All that said, I think you should make your player adhere to a level-influenced system that makes her more in line with power of your other players. Simply make her uses of a lower-level modifiable d20 spell comparable to others.

Essentially, balance everything .......... (as much as I have problems with it) like 4e.

C.I.D.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, I know it doesn't always seem easy, but I suggest just directly talking with the player and explaining your problem, then explain possible routes to avoid the problem. Be it house rules (like that save each round idea) or playing a different character.

You need to adress the problem you are having (and are you sure it's just the specific character and not personality traits?), not weasel around.

We recently had a discussion on an item that just seemed too powerful. The problem was not that the players could win - that is what they are usually expected to do. But the goal the DM saw for himself is to provide the players with a challenge that makes them sweat and think. And an overpowered "go-to" option deprives the players of such a challenge.

 

[Meridius]

I've already read some very nice suggestions.

Changing the magic system goes a bit above my hat. I would essentially have to retool her character into a completely new 3.5 one. I'd rather have her stick to the rules (the WoT ones) than make up my own.

Last night I suddenly had an idea. And quite frankly, I feel like an idiot for not thinking of it earlier. The main problem is that that several of her spells are so damned absolute. They are designed with the oaths in mind, now I don't want to force those oaths down her throat, since it's a fairly hack and slash game, her character isn't really suited for that without those weaves. So I thought of severely downgrading her harden air and false wall by just adding hitpoints to them.

I'll keep the damage done to the weaves to myself, and for example tell them that 'cracks, like in a cracked mirror appear in midair' for that little bit of extra drama.

Since it's a fairly hack-and-slash type of game her character is, other than the overpowered spells, quite underpowered, she heals by converting lethal damage to non-lethal damage, and using up to several hours for it. She deals very little damage, and most worrying to me, she often skips out on a turn. She seems not to have any problems with it, and she tells me she is having fun. But skipping out on turns seems rather boring to me.

So I guess I have to cook up some weaves 'not in the book' to give her a little compensation for what I'll have to take away from her. And challenge her into a bit more activity.

Mind you, I continuously say to others that I'm never going to allow another WoT character on any of my games ever again, but hell do I learn a lot from having her aboard

Let's say she casts this weave as a 4th or 5th level weave (spell) how many hitpoints would you find reasonable for such a glob of air or false wall?

I love the input!

- edit -
Mustrum Ridcully: She cán actually be a bit overpowering, and also, I might be a bit too nice for being a DM, dangerous combination, but I'll manage . My main objective is 'having fun' but her character seems to defeat that objective FOR ME. I just want a solution that's good for everyone, since this can be frustrating for fighter, rogue and paladin too...

- edit 2 -
Where are my manners?? I forgot to thank everyone for their input and welcome! So, thank you for your input and warm welcome!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

She deals very little damage, and most worrying to me, she often skips out on a turn. She seems not to have any problems with it, and she tells me she is having fun. But skipping out on turns seems rather boring to me.

Well, it is possible she likes it really. But as you note, if other players suffer from it.

Give the walls hit points equal to half her hit points when undamaged or something like that. Or maybe even full her hit points, since they don't have defenses (AC, Saves), right? Should be over quick but not too quick. You could also allow Bullrushs or Trips (use her casting stat +spell level or something like that to resist) the walls to move or topple them.

 

[SiderisAnon]

I have played Wheel of Time in a campaign with two of that setting's spellcasters. The magic of the WoT settings is NOT balanced to go along with a standard D&D game. Frankly, I would never allow it into a regular game.

The problem without incorporating outside material is that the world isn't set up to deal with it. For instance, if you have one psionic in a magic-only world, the opponents don't know how to react/counter the problem, there are no anti-psionic threats, and it makes that unique character just that much more powerful. Letting someone exist with a totally unique magic system doesn't just make them powerful, it can make them a god. People aren't set up to counter it, they don't even know what to expect from it, and the challenges aren't laid out with the new magic in mind.

I recoginze the kind of player you're dealing with. Sometimes, you can afford to give them some room to play, but sooner or later you will have to put your foot down and say "no". As a new DM, I would recomend that you do so sooner rather than later. Your best option is to not allow any outside material until you have more experience under your belt and until you have the time to complete meld it into the game world.

The most simple answer to your problem is to talk to the player. Eplain that you're sorry, but you just can't balance in this outside magic so she need to either retire the character or convert them to a standard D&D class and rules. You might get a lot of flack from the player over this, but remember that you have a table full of people that need to be accounted for, not just this player.