Diplomacy Checks

[newgrace]

I remember a previous thread on this where they brought up a great scenario. Making the evil bad guy friendly with diplomacy, then he kills you quickly instead of torturing you... A lawful good sherrif made friendly, maybe he will speak up for you, maybe he will drop by and visit while you are in jail, perhaps he will get the process rushed, and your in jail that much faster...whats a favor between friends?

Diplomacy is your skill to make people like you, and get along with you. Doesnt make them break the law, nor does it change who they are. Maybe it can get you out of a bar tab, perhaps that guard will let you go with a warning for the fight in the street, or perhaps the bad guy will kill you quickly instead of using you as bait for your friends to find.

 

[Kaledor]

Check out Complete Adventurer pg 99.

It all keys around changing the NPC's attitude. Applying the opponent's Diplomacy modifier tothe required DC.

It appears to me that the sheriff incident wasn't diplomacy but a bluff since the characters weren't really "negotiating".

There was a Bluff and Sense Motive exchange right away (those were the first "shots" fired )
But after conversation progresses and the Players are trying to influence the Sherrif that's when the roll was called for and that's when the trouble surfaces...


I'll check out CAdv when I get home. Thanks for the reference!

 

[Elethiomel]

Rich Burlew has taken a stab at making the Diplomacy skill work better.
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html

 

[Nail]

I understand that Diplopmacy != Innocence.
Innocence and guilt will be based off her belief (Sense Motive) of their Statements (in this case Bluffs... b/c they were guilty and trying to hide it).

If you believe that to be the case, then you've just ANSWERED YOUR OWN QUESTION!

Don't use Diplomacy at all. Use Bluff/Sense Motive!

What's Diplomacy got to do with it?

 

[Kaledor]

What's Diplomacy got to do with it?

Because they were actively trying to influence the NPC.
Which (my understanding) is the skill in question...
The problem arrised when reading the skill and trying to correctly figure out its use.


I altered my original post, b/c from a few of the responses it's clear I miss-typed the situation...
The players had already openned the initial volley of Bluffs and Sense Motives. The sherrif had already determined her thoughts. What the player was trying to do was influence her attitude to help her opinion of him/them. I think his hope was that she only partially believed his guilt and that he could smooze her into acting more favorably with him. Not ignore his guilt/innonce, not set him free/lock him up, just make her more friendly. Based on the situation, we ruled a Diplomacy Check was warranted.

Thus began the problem of
-Opposed check?
-Check with a penalty?
-Straight Check?




*Now it seems from the other posts, that:
-- An opposed check might be used when two different people are after the same goal but only one could win it (eg: bartering, "diplomating" the king,...)
-- A check with a penalty would be used in this case with the target's ranks in Diplomacy being used as a modifier (as per Complete Advent.)

 

[Kaledor]

Check out Complete Adventurer pg 99.

Thanks.
I looked at it when I got home. It's the type of mechanical answer from Wizard's that I was searching for.

Rich Burlew has taken a stab at making the Diplomacy skill work better.
http://www.giantitp.com/articles/jFppYwv7OUkegKhONNF.html

Thanks!
I read through his article. I agree with what he is saying. It makes the skill a bit more complicated, but a lot more workable. I'm not sure if my group will go for it, but I'm going to show it to them for their consideration. I have a couple of players that I can never predict how they are going to feel about House Rules... some they adopt, some they don't -- but sence everyone in the group loves Rich's work on his comic, that might swing their vote

 

[Nail]

Not ignore his guilt/innonce, not set him free/lock him up, just make her more friendly.

In that case, you (the DM) set her attitude (probably "unfriendly", depending on the nature of the crime), and the PCs roll against a set DC.

Given that she thinks they are guilty, the only thing a "friendly" result would give would be respectful treatment....as prisoners in the local jail.