Disappointed in 4e

[MichaelSomething]

To summarize, people get upset when companies embrace the idea of non-excellence as a viable marketing tactic.

The best way to combat this is to not buy products from said company. WOTC isn't the only company out there willing to sell you stuff. If the cream will raise to the top, then another company can replace WOTC as the provider of RPG material.

What won't help is posting on message boards when your angry.

 

[ExploderWizard]

Every time (ever single time) someone says, "I use my sly flourish" or "I cast eyebite" or "I use hammer and anvil", I always respond, "what does it look like?" It's a codification of one of the most important rules of narrative writing: show me, don't tell me. After a while, players get the hint; what I really want, as a DM, is narrative variety. The powers on their sheet are merely conflict resolution mechanics for cinematic storytelling.

In this environment, 4E works and the powers never get stale.

If the powers all kind of feel the same and description is used to flavor the particular application why is this any different than applying such narrative skill to the mechanics of " I hit" from previous editions?

Show me don't tell me works great for any edition. I can use this principle with my Basic D&D character and get the same effect.

When every power becomes " I send my bzzzt at the bad guy for 2d? (flavor) damage" how are we that far beyond "I attack"?

 

[Ryndal]

Not only the best way - but the only way to deal with profit making corporations is to vote with your wallet

Nothing else matters at all. Period.

 

[Allister]

In the core rules of 3.0, 3.5 and back to the editions of AD&D, we had illusions for trickery, necromancy for creating undead minions, animal companions to accompany Rangers (and sometimes Druids), monks, and the ability of spellcasters to quickly cast spells other than purely combat magic.

Er, this isn't true AT ALL in 1e/2e.

Magic in 1e/2e was VASTLY different than what it became in 3E.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Not only the best way - but the only way to deal with profit making corporations is to vote with your wallet

Nothing else matters at all. Period.

You sire are right. This I have done I no longer by anything wotc sales.

And welcome to the boards

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

Er, this isn't true AT ALL in 1e/2e.

Magic in 1e/2e was VASTLY different than what it became in 3E.

I recall magic being more powerful myself. My 2e PHB laying here seems to say the same thing. You could lose spells easier and it was a whole round to cast pretty much.

 

[Allister]

I recall magic being more powerful myself. My 2e PHB laying here seems to say the same thing. You could lose spells easier and it was a whole round to cast pretty much.

I siggest you go over the ENTIRE spell chapter and see what I mean when I say, "magic in 3E became too GOOD".

Translating the spells over WITHOUT understanding the subsystem is what unbalanced the 3.x casters.

re: Necromancy and Illusion
I think they needed to take a hit for the team. IF you added all of those spells you wanted, are you going to cut down the powers of the martial classes?

Why do martial heroes not deserve nice things?

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

I siggest you go over the ENTIRE spell chapter and see what I mean when I say, "magic in 3E became too GOOD".

Translating the spells over WITHOUT understanding the subsystem is what unbalanced the 3.x casters.

re: Necromancy and Illusion
I think they needed to take a hit for the team. IF you added all of those spells you wanted, are you going to cut down the powers of the martial classes?

Why do martial heroes not deserve nice things?

It wasn't spells that did it, it was move and cast that hurt. Also lack of full attack and movement hurt the fighters. They went from running 30 ft and hitting a guy a few times to moveing 5' and hitting a guy a few times.


Spells did not unbalance, moving while casting did that

 

[Wormwood]

In this environment, 4E works and the powers never get stale.

This.

Interesting attack options + a little narration and creativity went a long way toward breaking us from our 20+ year "I hit/I miss" habit.

 

[Simon Atavax]

Whether true or not, there's something of an ideal people have about businesses in the marketplace. This ideal is that companies that focus on doing the best that they can in providing a product/service will rise to success, and the money will follow as a natural consequence - in other words, that cream rises to the top.
(snip) . . .
To summarize, people get upset when companies embrace the idea of non-excellence as a viable marketing tactic.

Alzruis, this was a truly excellent post. It reminds me of some of the complaints that various consumer advocates have made against GM, Ford, and Chrysler--that they make so much money on maintenance and upkeep at licensed shops that they are motivated to NOT improve their vehicles' overall quality. This may or may not be true, but it's the same concept as what you were talking about. Well said.