Disappointed in 4e

[LostSoul]

I won't profess to be an expert on 4E, so perhaps you can explain to me how hit points help you overcome fear and mental control or to dodge a poisoned dart.

Hit points can't be used to resist an Intimidate check, can they? Is there a cause fear spell that fails if it doesn't do enough "damage" to its victim? A poisoned dart "hits" regardless of hit points, right? That's purely a question of armor class.

If I am still above 0, I can still do things - like make saving throws. In the fiction, the wicked ghost might have possessed me, but it's only temporary, because I have the stuff to fight back.

If I go down to 0, I'm not fighting back any longer. He's using my body as his personal puppet.

Someone can scare me - like the Deathlock? Wight - and I might retreat a bit, but if his attack doesn't bring me down to 0 HP I'm going to act again. If I do go down to 0 HP, that's when I succumb to the fear.

Or someone might deal some damage with an Intimidate check, and I might do the same thing, but if I'm down to 0 HP I might run away.

Someone might nick me with a poison dart, but if the ongoing poison (save ends) damage doesn't kill me, the HP helped me to resist the poison.

Page 42? Of what book? The skill listing for Intimidate suggests that a success should cause bloodied opponents to flee or captured prisoners to give up valuable information. It doesn't suggest damage.

The DMG. There's a relationship between skill checks and damage. The key is that it takes a Standard Action and the DM's okay.

 

[LostSoul]

So...I can intimidate someone to death if I choose to??

The DM can allow you to do damage with an Intimidate check.

If it brings your target to 0 HP, the DM can rule that he's dead. I would probably have him run in terror or cower in the corner, begging for mercy. Any way you describe it, he's not going to fight any more.

 

[Imaro]

The DM can allow you to do damage with an Intimidate check.

If it brings your target to 0 HP, the DM can rule that he's dead. I would probably have him run in terror or cower in the corner, begging for mercy. Any way you describe it, he's not going to fight any more.

I thought by RAW, the player decides whether he's dead or not... and there's a big difference between not fighting anymore right now...and dying.

 

[The Little Raven]

I thought by RAW, the player decides whether he's dead or not...

The RAW also states that the DM is the final adjudicator of all things, so if the DM decides that the player kills or doesn't kill the creature, it overrides the player's narrative control of it.

 

[Jasperak]

Wait a second. We can have a discussion about using a Skill to do damage or even kill someone?

How is that going to work at an RPGA event?

 

[LostSoul]

I thought by RAW, the player decides whether he's dead or not... and there's a big difference between not fighting anymore right now...and dying.

That's right. You could decide that he's unconcious (which is what you can do by RAW).

Why would you do that, if you have a problem with Intimidate knocking people unconcious?

 

[RFisher]

Yes. Page 42, DMG. You can do an Intimidate-based action that would deal psychic damage to your target. Unless you get reduced to 0 hp by it, your hit points have been used to resist it, since it's intention was to reduce you to ineffectiveness.

Don’t have the DMG. Don’t want the DMG. This is making me feel like I can’t discuss the system since I only own the PHB. (6_6)

How is that going to work at an RPGA event?

I understand and respect that others feel differently, but that’s the last thing I want a system to be designed for. I suppose that’s pretty much the reason I prefer B/X to 1e these days.

Though I suppose a simple answer might be that this isn’t something RPGA DMs would be allowed to OK.

 

[Rel]

Don’t have the DMG. Don’t want the DMG. This is making me feel like I can’t discuss the system since I only own the PHB. (6_6)

For what it's worth, my opinion about 4e improved dramatically when I got the DMG (I started with just the PHB for a few weeks). I think that the PHB doesn't read worth a crap. I think that the DMG is the best in years.

 

[LostSoul]

Don’t have the DMG. Don’t want the DMG. This is making me feel like I can’t discuss the system since I only own the PHB. (6_6)

The DMG is the book that tells you how to play the game.

 

[bagger245]

Methinks the words: healing, damage, cure, hit points, wounds etc should be revamped.
There is another thread about the bard and some guy mentioning that the bard
heals you.. That just sounded wrong..