Disappointed in 4e

[Delta]

Hit points in 4e are the same as hit points in every other edition of D&D; a measure of a character's ability to keep fighting. When a character's hit point value is greater than zero, they can.

Revisionist history.

 

[justanobody]

That's cool.


But as others have pointed out, that 'namby-pamby feelings crap' has been an integral part of warfare since the dawn of mankind.

(and a real warrior is strong enough to accept his feelings...).

But they don't need to be a function of HP. There is nothing that says a new stat cannot be created to handle those and some things directly target that new stat.

Still sacred cows people are sticking to the bad ones. You can create a fatigue/etc stat and let it get affected by something. Affect the intelligence or constitution...it doesn't have to be solely a function of HP.

Many games make do with a sort of HP that only represents physical injury.

Hit points, not maniac depression points. How many hits can your body take. That is what HP should be.

They redid so much in 4th, why couldn't they create something for non-physical damage. They are going to need it anyway with psionics....

 

[Fifth Element]

I think HP and debilitating physical effects are not a good mix. For example in my own project, HP are pretty much class based and not influenced by stats at all. Once HP are gone you have run out of luck/magical protections and are down to your body which is simply CON. If you are out of hp then you are knocked out. If you are out of CON then you are dead.

HP can remain non-physical and injury effects can be added based on the CON damage taken. Healing times for CON damage can also be much longer than HP allowing for both lingering wounds for body damage and quick recovery for HP because they are more like fatigue than injury.

No negative HP to track either.

That's an idea I've thrown around myself a bit over the years. 4E kinda sorta started going in this direction, in that your Con score is added to your hit points at 1st level. You could look at it as your Con being the physical hit points and the class hit points being the non-physical stuff.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Banging this drum again?

Give me an example in 4e where you need to "ret-con" the wound.

I recall that was something you couldn't do before.

I recall that I did so ad infinitum ad nauseum before, as did several other people, and have no need to do so again.

The drum being "banged again" seems to be "Prove it!" "Uh, prove it with another example!" "Uh, prove it with another example!" "Uh, prove it with another example!" "Uh, until you supply a fresh example for all my requests, you haven't proved a thing!"

EDIT: The number of suggested house rules to deal with the Schrödinger's Wounding problem, from many EN World luminaries, would seem strange if said problem didn't exist. Why, I wouldn't be surprised if I went back and discovered that you offered a fix or two yourself for a problem that you deny exists.



RC

 

[Fifth Element]

Revisionist history.

Proof?

I think we've all seen the 1E DMG quotes which spell out that hit points represent more than just physical wounds.

 

[Fifth Element]

But they don't need to be a function of HP. There is nothing that says a new stat cannot be created to handle those and some things directly target that new stat.

No, there is nothing that says that. But given the abstract nature of D&D combat resolution mechanics, it's certainly a legitimate choice.

Many games make do with a sort of HP that only represents physical injury.

Maybe you should be playing a different game then?

Sorry, couldn't resist.

They redid so much in 4th, why couldn't they create something for non-physical damage. They are going to need it anyway with psionics....

Um, what?

 

[ExploderWizard]

That's a pretty neat idea.

Is this just a mod you are working on for 4e or is it part of some kind of total rule system rewrite?

A whole new system from the ground up taking parts I like from every edition and adding my own spin. I hope to have a workable model ready to run by next DC gameday.

From OD&D: 3 classes, (but with options within those classes)

Ability scores without modifiers to hit, damage, AC ,or saves (at least for the 3-18 level range)

A custom 2-tiered skill system. The detailed version will have task DCs similar to 3E, the simple version lets you chose what a character is most competent at while leaving the resolution method and chances to the DM.

Its a monster project but a lot of fun.

 

[Raven Crowking]

Proof?

I think we've all seen the 1E DMG quotes which spell out that hit points represent more than just physical wounds.

Just finish quoting what you began.

From your earlier post, you've recently read the proof you are requesting.


RC

 

[Fifth Element]

Just finish quoting what you began.

From your earlier post, you've recently read the proof you are requesting.

I was responding to a claim that this is revisionist history: "Hit points in 4e are the same as hit points in every other edition of D&D; a measure of a character's ability to keep fighting. When a character's hit point value is greater than zero, they can."

If you can show me a passage that specifies this is incorrect, I'd like to see it.

Once again, this is not your strawman "Hit points do not represent physical damage in any way, shape or form." This is "There is more to hit points than just physical damage."

 

[Mallus]

Revisionist history.

Could you point me to an edition of D&D in which hit points were something other than a measure of a character's ability to keep fighting?