Disarm, Sunder, Grapple, Trip

[Jhulae]

Well, no more ambiguity now.

All are substitutable for melee attacks, can be used with a charge, can substitute for a melee attack one or more times in a full attack, and can substitute for the melee attack from an AoO.

 

[Deset Gled]

I don't see any new PHB errata listed, so I'm at a bit of a loss to understand what basis you have for this statement.

 

[Victim]

Probably Rules Compendium.

 

[Jhulae]

Probably Rules Compendium.

Yes.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

what about monks and monsters with more attacks then their iterative?

 

[Jhulae]

what about monks and monsters with more attacks then their iterative?

Since they can be substituted for any melee attack (including multiple times during a full attack action), a monk/monster/whatever could substitute them for all their melee attacks. Same with TWF or whatever else gives more melee attacks.

Basically, they seem to have made disarm, sunder, grapple, and trip interchangable with 'melee attack'.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Um, I thought they were always clearly that way.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Since they can be substituted for any melee attack (including multiple times during a full attack action), a monk/monster/whatever could substitute them for all their melee attacks. Same with TWF or whatever else gives more melee attacks.

But you still can't take the extra attack from your Longsword of Speed and use it to Trip, since the extra attack is specifically with the longsword. Just as you couldn't take that extra attack and use it to throw a dagger.

And once you're actually in a grapple, things are different.

But the change to the Sunder rules at least brings that special attack in line with the others in how it behaves.

-Hyp.

 

[Deset Gled]

Probably Rules Compendium.

Is the Rules Compendium officially errata? I'm fuzzy on the subject and don't own the book, so I can't check myself. Does the book say anything definitive on the subject of its definitiveness?

 

[Jhulae]

Latest source rule makes it the official book of the Rules currently. The book itself also states that it incorporates offical errata.