Disarm with Reach weapon (CounterDisarm)

[Lord Thurham]

A character with spiked chains performs a disarm action against an opponent 10 feet away. The opponent has a long sword. The character fails his disarm attempt. Can the opponent perform the “Free” disarm with his longsword even though he is not yet threatening the character who just tried to disarm him?

Thanks!
LT

 

[Murrdox]

I'm SURE this question is in the FAQ somewhere... but I forget exactly... someone do us a favor and look it up.

I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes" the fighter with the longsword gets his disarm attempt. Basically, you've tangled up the fighter's sword with your chain... but failed to wrench it out of his hands. Now he has a chance to pull your chain out of YOUR hands.

 

[Lord Thurham]

I'm SURE this question is in the FAQ somewhere... but I forget exactly... someone do us a favor and look it up.

I'm pretty sure the answer is "yes" the fighter with the longsword gets his disarm attempt. Basically, you've tangled up the fighter's sword with your chain... but failed to wrench it out of his hands. Now he has a chance to pull your chain out of YOUR hands.

Exactly what my thoughts are. One of the players is arguing otherwise. Currently, I am holding firm that the opponent does get the free attempt to disarm the character if the character fails. I did say that I would check here and see what others thought of this.

I checked in the Main FAQ already, there are disarm questions, but none that specifically address this issue. Perhaps it was answered by WOTC in a thread? Does anyone know for sure?

LT

 

[Lord Thurham]

Another thing to add to this post, suppose the character does suceed in disarming his opponent (now the longsword lays at the opponents feet), the opponent continues in and and tries to disarm the character. What is the "Weapon Size" for an unarmed medium sized creature? Is it medium? or is it two sizes smaller as noted for an "Unarmed Strike" on the SRD?

Thanks!

LT

 

[guido1999]

It would be two sizes smaller...or tiny for a medium creature.

 

[Murrdox]

He he he

Yes, the opponent in question would be well advised to PICK UP his longsword before going in to try and disarm the player with the chain.

Don't Monks have a few feats available to them that allow them to ignore the massive size penalty for trying to disarm with your bare hands?

 

[guido1999]

I don't know about that, but I know that if you disarm an opponent while unarmed, you can opt to have the weapon in your hands after the successful attempt.

 

[Lord Thurham]

I don't know about that, but I know that if you disarm an opponent while unarmed, you can opt to have the weapon in your hands after the successful attempt.

Yes, this is correct. however, Tiny vs Lg is a +12 difference and to the advantage of the weapon wielder. HUGE HUGE disadvantage to the unarmed. The unarmed foe has a better chance with Grapple than to try to relieve his attacker of the weapon.

Picking up the weapon is an option, but then the character can attempt another disarm on his turn, and step back, forcing the opponent to go thru a threatening square again, thus another disarm attempt. The odds are heavily in the characters favor. Very heavy in the characters favor. It's a good tactic. Now, here's where it gets pretty nasty, the character is standing adjacent to another character also with Spiked Chains. ARGH!!! That makes it very hard for an opponent to get in there without multiple disarm attempts.

So, I am looking at the options and weighing out what the next best thing is... Ranged attacks is good, grapple isn't too bad, tripping.. well, that's ok too.

It's a hard situation to over-come without jacking up the threat level... harder monsters or monsters with natural weapons.

LT

 

[Hypersmurf]

Don't Monks have a few feats available to them that allow them to ignore the massive size penalty for trying to disarm with your bare hands?

No, but there's an optional rule in Sword and Fist that says that while an unarmed strike is two sizes smaller than you, if you attempt to disarm with both hands, it counts as a weapon of your size category (ie Medium for the average hman monk).

-Hyp.

 

[dcollins]

Can the opponent perform the “Free” disarm with his longsword even though he is not yet threatening the character who just tried to disarm him?

Really, no FAQ entry is needed on this one. The answer is "Yes". The player's probably been confused by semi-reading discussions of attack-of-opportunities versus reach weapons. For example:

Q #1: I try to disarm someone 10 ft. away. Do they get the resulting attack of opportunity? -- A: No. AOOs require the target to be in a threatened zone.

Q #2: I try to disarm someone 10 ft. away. Do they get the resulting counter-disarm if I fail? -- A: Yes. The counter-disarm is not an AOO, and nothing in the language on PHB p. 137 requires the target to be in a threatened zone.

(This assumes a normal circumstance with a Medium-size opponent, no reach weapon of their own, etc., etc. The only wiggle room for a rules lawyer would be to argue the counter-disarm also provokes an AOO, but certainly not that they need to threaten to attempt it.)