Discussion - General Discussion Thread '08

[Boddynock]

Re: covaithe and Trouvere - it is good, isn't it?

Re: character approvals - Halford, how about improving the character judges' rep by changing your signature file? Rigabold Parr was approved a week ago.

 

[Halford]

Okay, lets see...

I need to know who made the LEW map on the wiki and who made the Orusssus rea map on the wiki, and if possible I would like permission to use these maps to make a world map using the Orussus map as a template. The Orussus map is actually still in there as well, being the main part of the earth quadrant.

I know that it is under populated and that I essentially added a rainforest in the fire quadrant, but I am supposing that this is a one half cartography one half wishful thinking map - ergo as much asa DM wants to be is accurate.

The attatched is what I have so far, and if anyone lets me know it is an infringement to use the maps I have cannibalized to make it up please let me know and I will remove it, etc.

Otherwise any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[Halford]

Okay having had it pointed out to me that the Orussus region is a much smaller part of EnWorld than I had previously thought I have redone the map. I have also added every place name from the Wiki of appropriate scale.

Some of the locations have been approximated, but I've tried to stay as close as possible to the positions given.

 

[Rystil Arden]

(OOC: At a quick glance, the just-appeared rainforest's location would make two of my three characters' backstories and two of my adventures really really messed up. I'd rather it not be there.

I do, however, like the sleek new style of the new map--the art looks nice!)

 

[Halford]

Thanks for the feedback Rystil, so what ought to be there? I have no problem shifting stuff around. etc.

 

[covaithe]

I think you're going to find it hard if not impossible to accomodate every character's backstory and the travel routes taken by every adventure. (e.g. I think the route that the players took in Sojourn to Sairundan would have been rather different on your map.) So I think it's worth taking a page from L4W's book, and have your map be an in-game construct, made by an NPC, and just admit up front that it's inaccurate in various unspecified ways. Did your homeland get left off the map? Oops, sorry; buy a map from a different cartographer next time. I mean, have a look at some real-world medieval maps sometime. [1] [2] [3] Those things vary between being completely unrecognizable, and being pretty accurate for small regions, but with huge missing sections. But without airplanes and satellites and surveying tools, what else are you going to do?

[1] http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/201A.html
[2] http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/221.html
[3] http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/port_cantino.html

 

[Halford]

Thats always been my plan Covaithe, but I do want to get it as close as possible. Really the maps for my own satisfaction. It cannot hurt to jigger it up as best I can...

 

[Rystil Arden]

I think you're going to find it hard if not impossible to accomodate every character's backstory and the travel routes taken by every adventure. (e.g. I think the route that the players took in Sojourn to Sairundan would have been rather different on your map.) So I think it's worth taking a page from L4W's book, and have your map be an in-game construct, made by an NPC, and just admit up front that it's inaccurate in various unspecified ways. Did your homeland get left off the map? Oops, sorry; buy a map from a different cartographer next time. I mean, have a look at some real-world medieval maps sometime. [1] [2] [3] Those things vary between being completely unrecognizable, and being pretty accurate for small regions, but with huge missing sections. But without airplanes and satellites and surveying tools, what else are you going to do?

[1] http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/201A.html
[2] http://www.henry-davis.com/MAPS/EMwebpages/221.html
[3] http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/port_cantino.html

This is true. Subtle differences are inescapable.

On the other hand, I'm not sure there's any reason to have a really giant unavoidable rainforest there on the map that has never appeared in any adventure or backstory (at least I think it hasn't, so definitely correct me if I'm wrong!). I would hope we would strive for at least as much accuracy as we can easily obtain. This is partially because whether or not we say it might be a distorted medieval map here, would-be GMs and chroniclers are likely to find the map and use it as if it is correct. I know this has happened with some of the outdated out-of-scale maps (sometimes it is easy to Google for the map or find it in the wiki while missing the ensuing discussion). I don't mind terribly either way, it just seems more advantageous to aim for accuracy.

Random sidenote--Term starts today and ENWorld has been having slowdown and sometimes failure to load the page. Doing term startup stuff is the reason for slightly sporadic posting this week, but I will be here and be updating if I can get onto ENWorld.

 

[Knight Otu]

It seems that a number of locations were accidentally shuffled around, too, maybe from the redo?. The Bainlund Hills and Lathirn (I assume Lathrin is a typo for Lathirn, at least) are in the Orussus region map, but on your map they're far out. There's also another region map, Earling that matches up with the Orussus region map.

Fake Edit: Ah, I see now what was going on with at least Lathirn's position. You used the old-old sketch as a reference as well, right?

Real Edit: Huh. ENWorld told me I was logged out after pushing submit, but the post went through regardless.

 

[Trouvere]

Enworld is big. Enormous. The disc diameter is said to be 25,000 miles. Some recent adventures have corroborated this - some of the M-A teams have travelled for a month on phantom steeds, covering 8000 miles or more edgewards.

I've taken the liberty of superimposing three recognisable real-world areas on top of Halford's map, to get a sense of the scale.

The commonly used Orussus region map shows an area about equal to that of Mexico, or Saudi Arabia, to pick something more conveniently rectangular.

Obviously some of the placement on the Halford map is inaccurate - I have no idea where Monemvassia is, but I'm pretty sure it's not 5000 miles from Orussus. The Sairundan party travelled a little more than 3150 miles before they saw Helatia on the horizon. (It seems that many places that are said to be "in the Lands of..." are really not very close to the Towers).

What bothers me more than any inconsistencies in the known regions is the "blockiness" of the geographic features in the "new" regions. The whole of North America fits neatly inside the borders of one portion of the Lerrani Rainforest - it's probably 20 times bigger than the Amazon. There are hilly regions as big as the whole of Europe. "Lake" Ulek is 2/3 the size of the Atlantic!

Consider the geographic diversity of real world regions, like Europe, for example, or a small country like NZ, which is only 1/8 the size of the Orussus region (Australia, admittedly, is nothing but choking red dust and poisonous snakes for thousands of miles in all directions). There's room for there to be *anything* in any part of Enworld, though there'll presumably be less variation the closer you get to an Elemental Tower. I'd expect Enworld to have an inland sea or several. Maybe it does have a giant rain forest bigger than anything in the real world. But I don't see any reason why the map should look like a patchwork quilt of just a few squares. I'd assume "out there" is nearly as variable as the well-known central lands.