D&D General Discussion thread - Alignments and society

[Coroc]

the City of Brass is in Elemental Plane of Fire if I remember right.

You are right of course, still the rest of what I said applies, although the plane of fire is basically neutral or unaligned which seems to be a contradiction to my initial statement, the efreet being kind of djinnis and with their laws and society, are different than just wild elementals.

Just to clarify, also my initial post, while e.g. normal humans do exist in every alignment nuance thinkable,
Elemental or divine or demonic entities have far less choice in that matter.
Every deviation from the norm would be very rare and mostly has a story with consequences behind their case, e.g. a fallen angel

 

[R_J_K75]

You are right of course, still the rest of what I said applies, although the plane of fire is basically neutral, the efreet being kind of djinnis and with their society, are different than just wild elementals.

Yep, the elemental plane of fire is neutral and Efreet are LE, but regardless Id suspect that the majority of the residents would be N or LN except for the genies. Theyd just go about their day to day activities not knowing any other life. Of course there would be creatures of all alignments present but probably not enough to cause a problem.

 

[MechaTarrasque]

As for a CE "society", I tend to think of them like a bunch of crocodiles waiting in a river for the wildebeests herd to come and try to cross.

Basically, you need to be born with self sufficiency, and just need enough "culture" that you find abusing the Other to be slightly more entertaining than abusing your own kind (as long as the Other is weaker than you of course).* So giants (includes trolls and ogres), dragons, and any poor suckers that had demons mess with their DNA, but not something that happens naturally (at least for long) among humanoids.

* About the only virtue of a CE society is that there is no need to "make an example" of members of your society. If a member of your society is hurting you, it is for entertainment purposes, to take something you have, or to drive you away.

 

[aco175]

I always thought that LE could work and form a society with the other alignments. They could also be better PCs than LN, N, or even CG. I guess it depends on if you favor the Lawful or the Evil.

If the PCs go visit this place, I would have the society be loyal to each other over outsiders. They may cheat their neighbor, but defiantly a stranger.

 

[Greenfield]

I thought that the Plane of Fire was Lawfully aligned, at least in the 3.* Manual of the Planes.

Could be wrong, of course, and happy to be corrected, if appropriate.

2) Value is relative. Information that is of minor value (directions) in exchange for goodwill with potential pawns/allies would be a good exchange for a LE character. That said, in such a treacherous society, everything should be carefully examined. If you've read the Wheel of Time think of the Aes Sedai, who cannot lie, but can twist the truth in knots.

Reading that, I couldn't help but think, "Goodwill. That and a dollar, will buy you a cup of coffee". The way I see it, debts are formally agreed to, or they don't exist in a Lawful Evil society. someone might decide to repay a favor, but wouldn't do it unless they saw some advantage to it. Like, the need for a favor in return.

That's just my take, of course, and maybe I'm seeing LEs as more dedicated predators than you are. LE individuals in a "normal" society would "do as the Romans do" for the most part, until they're strong enough to stop caring what the Romans do, and just do what they want.

In a LE based society I'd see predation on one's neighbors as a routine thing, and skill as a predator the key to social and economic advancement. The top predators are the ones willing to take a chance, and good enough to get away with it.

Kind of like Wall Street.

 

[pemerton]

Gygax's DMG (p 23):

Lawful evil creotures consider order as the means by which each group is properly placed in the cosmos, from lowest to highest, strongest first, weakest last. Good is seen as an excuse to promote the mediocrity of the whole​

And PHB (p 33):

Creatures of this alignment are great respecters of laws and strict order, but life, beauty, truth, freedom and the like are held as valueless, or at least scorned. By adhering to stringent discipline, those of lawful evil alignment hope to impose their yoke upon the world.​

The bolded things are good. LE beings, including Efreeti, scorn them because they are excuses for promoting mediocrity and suppressing the deserving strong. The main difference from CE seems to be the emphasis on hierarchy as opposed to individual self-aggrandisement.

I think such a soceity could rear children - think eg of a certain sort of stereotyped conception of Sparta, or of a British boarding school. I don't think it has a lot of room for affection, however, and so probably not much friendship. But not everything need be transactional - weaker beings might obey out of their own sense of their place in the social structure.

As the bullying student told Bertrand Russell, the middles bully the smalls because the bigs bully the middles. I think the City of Brass would resemble this.