Disdain for new fantasy
- Thread starter AllisterH
- Start date
In general, when you've got a group of heroic characters in shonen anime, the standard cast looks like this- main male lead, male second, female love interest.
The main male lead is ridiculously powerful but naive and untrained. Over the course of the show he will come of age and become the best combatant in the show, eventually defeating the arch nemesis. His tactics include charging head on, and charging head on.
The female love interest will fall in love with the main male lead, primarily due to his naive idealism. She may or may not kick ass herself. If she does not, her powers will support the male lead. If she does, she will stop kicking ass whenever the male lead is around. This will cause female viewers to roll their eyes.
The male second is the guy I'm describing. At the beginning of the show he is more powerful than the male lead, mostly due to his knowledge and experience. His powers and his personality will be more aloof and sinister than the main lead. He will treat the male lead with disdain, his interests will probably diverge from the male lead, and he will end up in violent conflict with the male lead multiple times. Eventually the male lead will defeat him and earn his respect. He will be a bit of a cynical anti hero, in contrast to the naive idealism of the male lead. And in terms of character design, he will look ever so slightly like he wandered in from a Shoujo anime.
This was more a feature in 80s and 90s anime, and has gone slightly out of style. Its considered a bit cliche these days. This dynamic was mocked in Slayers by "Xelos, the Mysterious Priest." Ryuho Tairen from Scryed is a good example of the more modern incarnation of this character archetype.
GreatLemur
Explorer
This is a weird thing I keep noticing: Gamers using the term "anime" to describe things from the American comicbook culture. I'm failing to see anything especially Japanese about spiked chains or superheroes.Hairfoot said:
The only reason I can see for this is that "anime" has connotations of being new and foreign, so it works better as a pejorative generalization than, say, "comicbookish", which doesn't sound like such a harsh judgement in a geek community.
Mercule
Adventurer
Henry said:This kind of topic discussion is REALLY hard to pull off without unintentionally insulting someone, but I find it fascinating enough to try.
The kinds of stylistic elements that immediately send me thinking "anime" are things like:
- Enlarging one facial feature MUCH proportionally larger than the rest of the facial features to express emotion (huge smiles but small eyes in one shot, or huge eyes, but slit-like mouths in another shot on the same character)
- Character shots that either linger over one facial expression for many seconds, or repeatedly revisit that expression in cut scenes back and forth
- Action shots that are repeated several times to enhance the effect
- character names that refer to actions, or common words ("Guts" in berserk, Cloud Strife in FF7, Alucard in Hellsing)
- hair represented by "spikes" in differing patterns, usually to represent the "tousled hair" look
- strong references to specific martial arts styles or "secrets" that one character knows but others don't.
- characters, even the protagonists, whose motives are inscrutable to the viewer (namely me), but often have to do with an unspoken code of honor or rules that they are loath to break, and when they do they seem far more upset about it than the situation would seem to warrant. Even Star Wars kind of borrows this meme when describing why anger is so inimical to the Jedi... it's only through further movies and writings where this is better explained.
That's pretty accurate for me, too.
I don't dislike these things because because they come from anime. I dislike anime because it makes frequent use of styles/memes I dislike. When I see a similar grouping of styles invoked in a game, I tend to say that it feels anime-influenced. It's a lot quicker to say that something reminds me of anime and that I don't like the styles used in anime than it is to list them all every time.
As far as D&D goes, I like pseudo-Medieval fantasy. I think Wuxia and wirework clashes pretty strongly with that genre. That isn't to say I don't understand the draw. I just don't want that in my D&D games.
American comics don't generally place their superheroic characters in a fantasy setting, whereas Japanese manga, anime, and video games often do -- and that Eastern style of fantasy is influencing western fantasy games. Exalted is explicit about this, D&D less so.GreatLemur said:
GreatLemur
Explorer
Oh, man, believe me: What's he's describing is extremely anime. This character type (or character role, maybe) is almost ubiquitous in action/fantasy anime. Wherever you've got one big-eyes, spiky-haired, boisterous dude, there's always got to be his rival/antagonist with narrow eyes, long hair, and a calm (often standoffish) demeanor.WizarDru said:
Hell, let me go look up some shows known in the U.S. and see if I can point out the applicable characters... The most obvious one would be Sasuke from Naruto. I think Vegeta from Dragonball Z probably fits (I've noticed he's got a weird and completely inexplicable female fanbase). Damn, what else would people recognize? I guess Wolfwood takes this role on Trigun, but I don't think I've ever seen an episode with that character... Oh, and what's-his-name from Berserk, the guy who later turned into a demon and primary antagonist, he's definitely that type. Oh, and Jin on Samurai Champloo.
I haven't been watching much anime, lately, and any time I have it's generally been pirated stuff, so I have pretty much no idea what's actually making it to American TV (and the stuff that makes it to American TV is almost always stuff I'd never watch).
GreatLemur
Explorer
Ah, okay. That's a valid point, one I hadn't thought of. I still think some of the things I see categorized as "anime" are extremely bizarre (piercings???), but this does begin to make more sense.mmadsen said:
Sunderstone
First Post
Shortman McLeod said:
agree and to add to that....
Unlimited spellcasting is certainly video-gamey. Mana bars are next?
Bo9S, Incarnum, etc have gone a long way from the traditional D&D that Im into. So Id avoid anime-like moves and combos as well.
Im 38 (DMming like 26 years) and have been playing since Basic. Ill stick with 3.5.
P.S. Save the Gnome.
I think the Japanese works are far more likely to embrace an anachronistic mix of aesthetics, with "hip" modern hair, etc., so any image of a young, slim hero with a "fashion conscious" look conjures thoughts of anime rather than Tolkien -- even if anime isn't known for tattoos and piercings.GreatLemur said:
GreatLemur
Explorer
I understand that that's the general thinking behind the claim, but it's just so technically, factually wrong on so many levels...mmadsen said:
