Divine Challenge (and all marks) question

[Fanaelialae]

I can't point to a specific source, and the DMG is pretty vague on it but if I am not mistaken the designers themselves have posted somewhere that an encounter does not (maybe read as shouldn't) end if someone is in a dying condition.

I can understand your skepticism but maybe some kind sould out there can find a link. I'll see if I can find it too.

FWIW I seem to recall reading that somewhere, myself. I don't recall where though.

Still, once you stabilize any dying allies you should be able to take a short rest regardless (I personally go by the house rule that allies auto-stabilize at the end of a fight, because I find that dying after a fight is rather anti-climactic).

 

[Markn]

Actually, there's nothing in the RAW that states that death ends a mark either. So the one who marked you might be dead and you still would suffer the marked condition until conditions were such that it ended (which seems a bit of a quandary, as it's questionable whether a dead creature can even have an "end of your turn").

So it might actually look more like this:

1. Coup de grace paladin (paladin dies).
2. Make opportunity attack against former-paladin's ally.
3. Suffer marked penalty and radiant damage from paladin's mark.

Of course, I in no way claim that that's the intent. I believe that the RAI would have the mark end (or at least become suppressed) when the defender becomes unconscious. To me, it's the most logical approach (though I agree it isn't RAW).

Very true. My point was more about the lameness of coup de grace (or lack thereof) but I guess thats a different thread.

 

[ShaggySpellsword]

Actually, there's nothing in the RAW that states that death ends a mark either. So the one who marked you might be dead and you still would suffer the marked condition until conditions were such that it ended (which seems a bit of a quandary, as it's questionable whether a dead creature can even have an "end of your turn").

Epic Destinies that let you come back after you've died indicate that you just might still have turns post-mortem.

 

[Destil]

There's no reason to deviate from the rules as written on this one in my eyes. People worried about it are forgetting that there are no turns in the game world. Even if a monster's buddy drops the fighter before he gets to act, he's still off balance from the initial attack and thus at -2 to hit.

Aside from powers that mark the only mark that won't normally easily fall off is the swordmage's. But the swordmage looses their warding when they drop, so tearing them to shreds may not be such a bad idea, and it's magic so that's okay. Though there's nothing in the rules that says that the mark falls off when you die, huh? If you're marked and kill the swordmage, guess you're stuck marked for life...

 

[keterys]

Aside from powers that mark the only mark that won't normally easily fall off is the swordmage's. But the swordmage looses their warding when they drop, so tearing them to shreds may not be such a bad idea, and it's magic so that's okay. Though there's nothing in the rules that says that the mark falls off when you die, huh? If you're marked and kill the swordmage, guess you're stuck marked for life...

Just for 5 minutes or until you take a short rest

But, yes, exactly the point.

Much like it's mighty odd that you take damage from divine challenge/sanction if the paladin is unconscious. Or dead.

 

[Destil]

Just for 5 minutes or until you take a short rest

But, yes, exactly the point.

Much like it's mighty odd that you take damage from divine challenge/sanction if the paladin is unconscious. Or dead.

Did I miss something upthread were we found the RAW making marks/conditions fall off with a short rest?

I don't find the paladin thing odd at all. It's divine justice, not some wimpy fighter distracting the monster with their sword. The mark will fall off after a round unless you're on top of the body, anyway. Swordmage is the only one that seems weird, but even that can be explained as magic.

EDIT: Actually, the weird thing is that there's only one way to end a swordmage mark, kill the target. The avenger oath has a similar problem, and brings up the argument of using intimate to make the target surrender (which has come up in a game for me with an avenger)...

 

[keterys]

Hmm, I thought there was a general rule that almost everything falls off after 5 minutes / the encounter ends, but it may be that the swordmage aegis gets around it with its conditional duration of 'coup de grace me. Really, really'

 

[FireLance]

Yep, and if an Eladrin Fey Knight challenges a PC then rides off, that PC takes 4 damage every round for the next 50 rounds... definitely RAW, but still not necessarily working well

Bah, just get the party defender to overwrite the previous mark by marking the PC instead. Of course, that might bring up the bag of rats issue, which is a whole other thread...

 

[Hypersmurf]

Did I miss something upthread were we found the RAW making marks/conditions fall off with a short rest?

I think it's confusion with the Fey Knight power, which marks until the end of the encounter (and thus ends with a short rest).

-Hyp.

 

[DracoSuave]

Bah, just get the party defender to overwrite the previous mark by marking the PC instead. Of course, that might bring up the bag of rats issue, which is a whole other thread...

And when the one marked IS, say, your Fighter?


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