D&D General DM with too High Expectations - Advice?

[Campbell]

Exposure as salary is looked down upon in pretty much any creative industry. It's disreputable behavior. Some people get away with it, but that does not make it right.

 

[prabe]

Exposure as salary is looked down upon in pretty much any creative industry. It's disreputable behavior. Some people get away with it, but that does not make it right.

This. Oh, so very much this.

 

[FrogReaver]

Exposure as salary is looked down upon in pretty much any creative industry. It's disreputable behavior. Some people get away with it, but that does not make it right.

That’s because it’s prone to a lot of abuse in those industries. It usually prone to that abuse is in any industry where big business is involved. I’ve seen that same kind of thing in my own and it’s not a creative industry at all. Once it starts the higher ups realize they can get the work done cheaper and never actually hire for that position anymore.

we aren’t talking about big business here though. We are talking about how a leisure activity can organically transition into something more. That doesn’t start with business plans and contracts. It starts by doing stuff and seeing if it’s worthwhile.

 

[prabe]

That’s because it’s prone to a lot of abuse in those industries. It usually prone to that abuse is in any industry where big business is involved.

we aren’t talking about big business here.

It's prone to abuse in any creative industry, where the actual creative people are ignorant of business or really think exposure is fair payment-in-kind. Volunteering your work is one thing, being asked to give it away is a different thing.

 

[FrogReaver]

It's prone to abuse in any creative industry, where the actual creative people are ignorant of business or really think exposure is fair payment-in-kind. Volunteering your work is one thing, being asked to give it away is a different thing.

But these aren’t creative professionals. They are hobbyists. Like it doesn’t even apply. It’s not the same thing.

 

[Charlaquin]

If you want people paid for their labor then why are you against the idea of a dm being paid for his?

I’m not, and my comment didn’t imply that I am.

if he decides it’s a better model to get paid via outside revenue than his players directly paying him then that sounds like a win-win situation.

Only if the players want to do that, which we know in this case they don’t.

the only bad part of this is that his players aren’t okay with being filmed or doing extra homework and that’s perfectly okay.

solution then is to:
1. Charge the players to dm for them. Probably won’t work even if attempted

2. Find a new group of players that are okay having a free dm in exchange for their use in his brand building and monetization.

3. Forget monetizing himself and keep this is a hobby.

4. Pay the players for the work he’s asking them to do.

Any of the above would be acceptable solutions.

And here’s the thing that seems missed, if he’s ever successful and his monetization pays off then that’s when the players are going to step up and say, I’ve been a big part of this. Give me my fair cut or I’m walking away which will damage your brand.

And in the far more likely event that it doesn’t pay off, the players just cut their losses? Sorry, no, that is not an acceptable solution.

 

[prabe]

But these aren’t creative professionals. They are hobbyists. Like it doesn’t even apply. It’s not the same thing.

The only reason they aren't professionals--by definition--is that they aren't getting paid. That's the only difference. So, you're saying they shouldn't get paid because they're not getting paid already? That seems unlikely (as in, you genuinely don't seem like the sort of person to say that). The objection--again--is to the DM deciding to monetize it without any consideration (apparently) of paying the players, ever.

Do people do stuff for free that's lots of work? Yes: Community theater is a thing; it's not my thing, but it's a lot of work, and there's roughly no money in it. Go to any listing of fiction markets and look at how many of them are non-paying or pay in copies, as opposed to how many pay at all (never mind how many pay "pro" rates, which ... aren't all that great). The vast majority of GMs don't even consider getting paid--either as GMs for hire or via streaming.

 

[Charlaquin]

Even the last D&D game I ran (back in the 3e era) had a heck of a lot more than that, just so the nationalities and religions were clear. It probably makes a difference whether you're running in an original setting or not.

I run in an original setting, and I tell the players what they need to know to make their characters, in as direct a way as possible. If someone wants to play a cleric, I’ll give them a list of gods and their domains. For the rest of the players, it’s not necessary information at character creation, and they can discover it in play.

 

[Charlaquin]

A) no issues. That’s what I’m arguing for.

B) this is the part that doesn’t make sense. Sorry but if you are making 10 dollars a month from “monetizing” your game by streaming it then it’s absurd to share that. And let’s be realistic, the guy is goina be lucky to make 10 dollars a month from this. Maybe years after he’s put tons of blood sweat and tears into it he might get beyond the 100 dollar mark a month.

which goes right back to my point about paying the dm. If we are talking 10 or 20 dollars a month in profit, that is essentially being paid to dm in such a way that the players don’t have to. There’s no sharing that should be taking place in that arrangement for those kinds of amounts.

If it doesn’t make sense for this person to do the work for a share of $10, why the hell would it make sense for the rest of the group to do the work for $0?

 

[Charlaquin]

we aren’t talking about big business here though. We are talking about how a leisure activity can organically transition into something more. That doesn’t start with business plans and contracts. It starts by doing stuff and seeing if it’s worthwhile.

But only if everyone involved wants to do so. If they don’t, you either have to accept it isn’t going to happen, pay them to do it, or find someone else who does want to.