D&D General DM with too High Expectations - Advice?

[Thomas Shey]

I run in an original setting, and I tell the players what they need to know to make their characters, in as direct a way as possible. If someone wants to play a cleric, I’ll give them a list of gods and their domains. For the rest of the players, it’s not necessary information at character creation, and they can discover it in play.

I guess I just can't imagine people having no idea what areas they come from and what kind of backgrounds are appropriate for that.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yes. In a lot of games, the lines aren't quite so clear. I was just clarifying/exemplifying the sorts of houserules I wouldn't expect someone to read. We are, I think, very much on the same page.

Yeah, if more abilities are gated off, then there's less of them that absolutely everyone may need to know. Of course my feeling is if I've got the house rules document set up right, people should be able to figure out what parts they can afford to skip over themselves (I normally will reference book page numbers, so if I'm changing, say, a magical spell or other paranormal power, the people who have no interest in running such a character can go "Oh, won't matter to me".

 

[Charlaquin]

I guess I just can't imagine people having no idea what areas they come from and what kind of backgrounds are appropriate for that.

If a player asks for more info I’ll give it to them. In my experience, that’s pretty rare. Players want to know what they need to know to make a character (i.e. what races, classes, backgrounds, and feats are available, and maybe some other details like the pantheon or if there’s a thieves’ guild or whatever) but aren’t interested in reading much beyond that. They might find other info interesting, if it comes up organically in-game, but they don’t want or need that stuff in session zero.

 

[Thomas Shey]

If a player asks for more info I’ll give it to them. In my experience, that’s pretty rare. Players want to know what they need to know to make a character (i.e. what races, classes, backgrounds, and feats are available, and maybe some other details like the pantheon or if there’s a thieves’ guild or whatever) but aren’t interested in reading much beyond that. They might find other info interesting, if it comes up organically in-game, but they don’t want or need that stuff in session zero.

Yeah, but even some of that is dependent on knowing the background in some cases; you can have everything available but not in every combination (for example in the referenced setting, you had wizards and elves, but no elvish wizards in any of the places an initial PC could come from; similarly, if you were planning to play certain combinations, they only appeared in certain places.

That's even more true with modern incarnations of D&D like 5e or PF2e where it'd be almost impossible if I was using the same setting to avoid running into problems with incompatible pieces without knowing the backgrounds.

 

[jgsugden]

I guess I just can't imagine people having no idea what areas they come from and what kind of backgrounds are appropriate for that.

You don't need to assume they get no idea - they may have 100% of the idea. Here is the way I start a campaign (meant to run 1 to 20, as opposed to a one shot or short adventure):

1.) I give the players an overview of the area of the world from which they'll be starting.
2.) I give them the list of Gods (which are mostly Greyhawk and Dawn War now - they used to be homebrew).
3.) I then ask them to tell me about the PC idea that most interests them.

At this point, players that have played with me before may make reference to parts of my world they know, or to the part of the word in which they'll be adventuring. Players new to my game will just start to tell me a story. If I have a place in my world that fits with their story, I'll interject and suggest how we can align it to my word. If they do not like that idea, or if there is nothing in existence in my world that matches their idea: I make it. My campaign world is 12 times the size of Earth on the surface, with a Dyson Sphere type Underdark surface that is nearly as large. Plus there are infinite other worlds in my campaign setting on the Prime Material Plane ... they're just not the planet at the center of the Universe where all existence began.

A long time ago, one of the players wanted to play a version of himself. So, in my Prime Material Plane, there exists a world just like our Earth that is mostly cut off from the magics of the game world. Yeah, I take it that far.

4.) Once we have their story, and their place of origin, I run a session 0 1 hour adventure to build upon the story elements they gave me and to launch them towards the other PCs.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Notice that a lot of that works because you're already working with players who have some knowledge of either your homebrew world or the published one you're working from, however.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, but even some of that is dependent on knowing the background in some cases; you can have everything available but not in every combination (for example in the referenced setting, you had wizards and elves, but no elvish wizards in any of the places an initial PC could come from; similarly, if you were planning to play certain combinations, they only appeared in certain places.

That's even more true with modern incarnations of D&D like 5e or PF2e where it'd be almost impossible if I was using the same setting to avoid running into problems with incompatible pieces without knowing the backgrounds.

Sure. If such restrictions exist, that would fall under information the players need to make their characters, and should be included in that 2-page doc.

 

[Guest User]

To be fair, literally none of the players have asked for him to do this. He has taken all of this on for himself and sent them a video that basically called them out for being ungrateful for all the hours of work he is putting into the game. Again, the players haven't asked for him to do anything like this. They all seem to be casual players who just don't get his "masterful DM mind."

Yeah, sounds like the DM might have gone a "little screwey" as they say in Dr. Strangelove. On a more serious note, isolation, can lead to Depression.

Sometimes it is very difficult to have a "right view", when other pressures, such as finances, are weighing someone down.

Oof..that is unfortunate for your wife, her game, and her friend. YouTube, Instagram, or other social media stardom seems a fickle beast to me. Monetizing this fame seems even more of a fraught issue, to me.

One idea I have considered over the years is what if players were willing to pay DMs that started to feel under appreciated, and over worked in pursuit of their shared hobby.
Cinema prices vary from locale to locale,,but a $10-$20 donation per 4 hour session is about the Cost of a 2 and 1/2 hour movie.

Of course it is also the cost of a Disney + subscription. I think I am entertaining as a DM...but I'm not Mando level of entertainment. Besides, I want to keep my amateur status for when DMing becomes a (Zoom), Olympic sport.

 

[Oofta]

Yeah, sounds like the DM might have gone a "little screwey" as they say in Dr. Strangelove. On a more serious note, isolation, can lead to Depression.

Sometimes it is very difficult to have a "right view", when other pressures, such as finances, are weighing someone down.

Oof..that is unfortunate for your wife, her game, and her friend. YouTube, Instagram, or other social media stardom seems a fickle beast to me. Monetizing this fame seems even more of a fraught issue, to me.

One idea I have considered over the years is what if players were willing to pay DMs that started to feel under appreciated, and over worked in pursuit of their shared hobby.
Cinema prices vary from locale to locale,,but a $10-$20 donation per 4 hour session is about the Cost of a 2 and 1/2 hour movie.

Of course it is also the cost of a Disney + subscription. I think I am entertaining as a DM...but I'm not Mando level of entertainment. Besides, I want to keep my amateur status for when DMing becomes a (Zoom), Olympic sport.

Well, solo synchronized swimming was an olympic event for a while, and there's an effort to make chess an olympic sport as well so DMing may still have a shot.

 

[Retreater]

The Shocking Conclusion?...

So they had their meeting last night. After my wife and one other player said they don't want an overly intense game, the DM said, "Sorry that's all I will run." And then without any more debate said that their D&D game time will now be online versions of Uno or Clue. My wife felt terrible about voicing her opinions and taking away the option of playing D&D. I tried to reassure her that it wasn't her fault for standing up for herself - and it is solely on the DM for taking away their options and not having discussions.
What a jerk.