D&D (2024) DMG 2024: Is The Sandbox Campaign Dead?

[Reynard]

Got it, guess we just have different needs to run a sandbox, those things you mention are all things I do on my own. So from my perspective, sandbox play is alive and well in '24 (as it was in 14).

The Dungeon Dudes Drakenheim setting for 5e sounds exactly like what you are looking for.

I am talking about teaching.

 

[Shardstone]

Hmm. I'm not particularly impressed by any of the D&D creative team at this point. I reckon Perkins is overrated as a "celebrity DM", and Hamon really bungled the Phandalin book and didn't do much better with the Vecna book.


They are similar to the default 5e chase rules, with the main difference being that they use a more abstract zone mechanic for movement, which I find works better.

Spoiler

• Track the distances between the pursued and each pursuer in five steps: adjacent, close, medium, far and extreme.
• Each participant makes a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check at the end of its turn to stay in the chase. A pursuer move one step backwards on a failed check, dropping out the chase if he or she falls beyond extreme range. If the pursued fails their check, all pursuers move one step closer.
• On a success of 15 or higher, a pursuer moves on step closer. If the pursued scores 15 or higher, all pursuers fall back one step.
• All participants can take an action on their turn to attack or cast a spell, but doing so counts as a failure on their Dexterity check.
• Each participant rolls on the chase complications table at the end of their turn. Complications affect the next participant in the initiative order, not the participant who rolled. Either participant may spend inspiration to negate the result.

Use common sense to bend the rules as necessary. For example, a character with a high fly speed may advance
two steps on a good success instead of one. The chase ends when the characters defeat the pursued or when no pursuers remain in the running.

The complications table mainly involves things that either allow a chase participant to move forward or fall back a zone or two. Some involve taking damage as well. Here are two examples:

• Crash into a wall! Take 5 (1d10) bludgeoning damage and drop back two steps in the chase.
• Sudden gust of wind! Make a DC 10 Constitution saving throw to move forward one step in the chase. On a failed check, drop back one step in the chase.

Wow, and here I thought my rules were unique. Indeed no idea is. I love this because it's very similar to a method of Speed Tiers that I'm overall working on creating for 5E for theater of the mind stuff.

 

[Chaltab]

Vecna is a terrible book. Shattered Obelisk is a terrible book with actually worse editing. I can see in both examples of good game design, but the overall structure is awful

This might warrant its own topic but I was wondering why you think so. Not read either of them myself.

 

[MerricB]

This might warrant its own topic but I was wondering why you think so. Not read either of them myself.

I haven't been able to summon the enthusiasm to write about Vecna, but here's my take on The Shattered Obelisk

Review: The Shattered Obelisk - Merric's Musings

Phandelver and Below: The Shattered Obelisk is a 2023 campaign adventure published by Wizards of the Coast that takes characters from levels 1 through 12. It incorporates the excellent starter set adventure The Lost Mine of Phandelver, and then continues onwards for seven more levels of exciting...

merricb.com

Cheers!

 

[MichaelSomething]

They're constantly being released in the OSR, along with books on how to run hex crawls.

Which publishers are you referring to here, beyond WotC and Paizo?

Honestly, my post was a ruse to get other people to post third party sandbox products since I'm too lazy to research it myself.

 

[Oofta]

I don't understand the picture. Is this supposed to be edifying?

Umm ... it's supposed to represent a person new to the game (the guy) listening to someone who doesn't know how to give concise highlights about lore of the Forgotten Realms and going on and on. Apparently my attempt at humor missed.

 

[occam]

The subject is: will the lack of sandbox information in the 2024 DMG lead to a generation of people that come to D&D via 2024 NOT playing sandbox style games, or even knowing they exist?

Considering that the 2014 DMG didn't, AFAICT, mention sandbox campaigns at all, this shouldn't be a new concern. (Heck... over the decades, which of the DMGs actually have mentioned sandbox campaigns? You might be surprised if you keep reading this post!)

I haven't read through all the DMG, but given the tone of 5.5 and the obvious focus on purchasable adventures from WotC (the main point of backwards compatibility I believe), I expect you're right about this. I find it very disappointing, since sandbox emergent story play is personally my preferred style and I hate to think of new DMs not being exposed to it in the latest iteration of the game from which I learned about it. It is, I think, more efficient financially to focus on the big adventure path products, which are also easier to run (I freely admit doing sandbox "right" IME takes real effort). So I understand WotC's reasoning here. But to not mention it at all in the DMG is disheartening.

Then be heartened! For it is, indeed, actually mentioned in the 2024 DMG!

JOURNEYS WITHOUT DESTINATIONS
Sometimes, characters travel without a clear path to follow or a clear destination in mind. In such a case, use the grid of your map (squares or hexes) to define the stages of the journey, however many miles each square or hex might be. (This style of play is sometimes called “hex crawling.”)
In this kind of wilderness exploration, you can take one of two approaches to travel challenges:
Sandbox Approach: Your map of the area determines what characters find when they enter any particular hex on the map. You might have encounters or obstacles in place for every hex, or they could be spread farther apart.
Random Approach: Use tables to randomly determine encounters or obstacles in each hex the characters enter.

It's not much, but it's there, which is more than can be said for the 2014 DMG!

As for various folks claiming that the 2024 DMG is meant to prime DMs to buy WotC's published campaigns... well, those who have actually read the DMG can say with certainty that if that was their intent, they did a REALLY TERRIBLE job of it. The 2024 DMG is probably the clearest set of instructions for a new DM to create their own adventures, campaigns, and settings that TSR or WotC has ever published. Boy, did they screw up! But that's WotC for ya!

 

[occam]

NM

 

[Reynard]

Considering that the 2014 DMG didn't, AFAICT, mention sandbox campaigns at all, this shouldn't be a new concern. (Heck... over the decades, which of the DMGs actually have mentioned sandbox campaigns? You might be surprised if you keep reading this post!)

Look, someone else that obviously hasn't looked at the 2014 DMG recently.

As for various folks claiming that the 2024 DMG is meant to prime DMs to buy WotC's published campaigns... well, those who have actually read the DMG can say with certainty that if that was their intent, they did a REALLY TERRIBLE job of it. The 2024 DMG is probably the clearest set of instructions for a new DM to create their own adventures, campaigns, and settings that TSR or WotC has ever published. Boy, did they screw up! But that's WotC for ya!

Sort of, I guess? There are guidelines but they aren't particularly well organized. Their one page examples are a complete mess from a teaching perspective, with information scattered through the DMG and pointing to statblocks that don't exist yet.

But yes, the 2024 DMG makes an effort at instruction for one particular narrow adventure style that just happens to be exactly what they publish.

 

[Oofta]

Look, someone else that obviously hasn't looked at the 2014 DMG recently.

Sort of, I guess? There are guidelines but they aren't particularly well organized. Their one page examples are a complete mess from a teaching perspective, with information scattered through the DMG and pointing to statblocks that don't exist yet.

But yes, the 2024 DMG makes an effort at instruction for one particular narrow adventure style that just happens to be exactly what they publish.

How many styles are they supposed to include? There are only so many pages for this you could allocate, it's better that they focus on one specific style because, once again, this advice is targeted at new DMs. It's training wheels until they can figure out their own style.

This idea that DMs are somehow being turned into mindless drones without a will of their own is something I just can't take seriously.