DMing DMs

[Uzumaki]

I figure this is sorta like the 'Doctors make lousy patients.' thing. I was talking to an ex-DM about my game, in which he is going to be a player. During that time, he was prying me subtlely for stuff his supposedly naive character probably shouldn't know. I hesitated to just tell him to F off, but I'm wondering how long I'll be able to deal with this gracefully. There's another ex-DM who will probably be an even bigger problem, but I can probably tell him to knock it off without too much hassling.

Anyway, are there any tips on DMing DMs? I don't want a whole bunch of rules lawyers, nor do I want to deal with people who are used to playing by their own rules. Yikes. I'm depressing myself. I'll stop now.

 

[John Crichton]

That is tricky. I am primarily a DM myself but I am a PC at the moment. These DM-types need to realize that YOU are running the game and respect that. Show that you respect their knowledge of the game but stress the important aspects of their character rather than the rules. With any luck they will be your best roleplayers and really add to the game.

I have been in similiar situations. If you keep things moving and make the game fair they should respect you. Ask them to work with you if you feel they are trying to take over. Assure them that this is the group's game not yours. They do have a say but they are not running things.

I tend to rules-lawyer myself. If they start to butt-in, make a ruling on the spot. If you have to check the books a few times at the start, so be it. That will convince these folks that you are trying your hardest to be fair. If they are going in with a you vs. them attitude, hopefully they will turn around. You may even want to pull them over to the side before you run just to set a few ground rules.

Also, have any of these folks ever DM-ed for you?

 

[Mark]

Just be clear about any major changes you are making that aren't up for negotiation and let them know in advance how "loose" you might be playing with the rules (depending on your own level of rules knowledge, I guess.) As long as you aren't throwing everything out the window, there really shouldn't be too much of a problem. If there are problems during the first game session, let them know right away that things can be discussed after the session, then deal with it. Be up front if you want to avoid trouble. Letting things fester only makes things worse.

 

[Wormwood]

I prefer to DM, and I'll readily admit that I make the *worst* player.

Last week I even offered to run his NPC's during a huge combat.

What's worse is, he let me.

 

[Chronosome]

That is tricky. I am primarily a DM myself but I am a PC at the moment. These DM-types need to realize that YOU are running the game and respect that. Show that you respect their knowledge of the game but stress the important aspects of their character rather than the rules. With any luck they will be your best roleplayers and really add to the game.

I have been in similiar situations. If you keep things moving and make the game fair they should respect you. Ask them to work with you if you feel they are trying to take over. Assure them that this is the group's game not yours. They do have a say but they are not running things.

I tend to rules-lawyer myself. If they start to butt-in, make a ruling on the spot. If you have to check the books a few times at the start, so be it. That will convince these folks that you are trying your hardest to be fair. If they are going in with a you vs. them attitude, hopefully they will turn around. You may even want to pull them over to the side before you run just to set a few ground rules.

Also, have any of these folks ever DM-ed for you?

What he said.

 

[Dagger75]

I mostly DM and get to play every so often. I usally remind self, before I speak to the DM about a rule is they are the DM, not me and then I keep my big mouth shut.

As for your players asking for subtle hints and secrets, ummm I raise my hand in shame for I am one of these. I don't know ifts becaue for being a DM long you know everything that is going on in the world and you need that fix for this game.

For me I have another reason also, I have runs campaigns that have lasted years and some that have lasted only months, but everygame I get to play in runs like 3 or 4 sessiosn and BAM is over.
One DM had a pretty cool intricate story line, the first game rocked and made us look forward to the second game. We had already made a friend and made an enemy and had a pretty good reason to be adventuring together even though we met in bar. The next game we took a different turn and threw the DM for a loop and it spiraled out of control from there.
I am pretty good and making wrong turns part of the overal story line in my games and always fear that a game will end because we as players did something unexpected. I want to know whats going on so I can keep the story on track. I don't mind being led by nose or playing in published modules as long as I fun along the way.

 

[Erebus Red]

Just digesting your comments Dagger - I think that DM's need to have the courage to call 'time-out' when the players throw them an unexpected turn. Go home, prepare for new activities based on the players decisions and come back to the table prepared to give them something worthwhile.

On the topic of DMing DM's.... it sucks - agghh!!!

 

[Eryx]

As a regular DM I find that just playing is very uncomfortable, and I have to bite my tongue not to comment on some rules or somesuch. I find it difficult not having the level of control I have when I'm DMing.

 

[Buttercup]

Well, I usually DM, but I don't think I make a lousy player. You should probably ask alsih2o about it though, since I play in his Tuesday night game. Granted, I've only played in two sessions so far, but I think I behave myself.

I also play in a T20 game with a DM who knows less about the D20 system than I do. I think I've done an excellent job of keeping my mouth shut when he mangles the rules (which happens regularly) because he isn't doing it to screw his players. We're playing to have fun, and we all are, so that is really the main issue.

The thing is, I view the rules as an optional framework that you hang the story on. Some DMs seem to view the story as a means to road-test all the rules. I think that might be where the problem comes from.

 

[Umbran]

During that time, he was prying me subtlely for stuff his supposedly naive character probably shouldn't know.

I might suggest that this sort of behavior may have nothing to do with his being a DM. Enough players who don't run games do such things. Many a rules-lawyer or advantage-grubber has never been behind the screen.

In any case, you'd deal with it pretty much the same way as you'd deal with any other player - firm but polite refusal to give in.