DM's and Rules Lawyers - How Would You Rule this Deadly Situation?

[Herremann the Wise]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Just a further question that was perhaps more at the heart of our DM's ruling.

Firstly, there seems to be a little confusion here in that a Phantom Steed is not a summoned creature. It is a conjured creation, not disimilar to an unseen servant. As far as I know, it has no awareness except to its riders instructions. Thus it does not avoid blows, get reflex saves etc. although it is assumed to float along avoiding obstacles when ridden (what happens if the rider falls asleep? Does it stop or keep going?).

Potentially then, is everyone else aside from the "designated driver" an opponent to the creation? Does it actively try to get out of the way of things? Can the creature attempt to hold its ground or is it unnecessary?

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise

 

[FireLance]

I'm a bit uncertain of what FireLance is ruling, since the two halves of his statement seem to be contradictory:FireLance, are you saying the steed would or would not provide cover?

The steed would not provide cover. The second bit was a pre-emptive strike against arguments that the steed could be treated as a statue.

 

[andargor]

Potentially then, is everyone else aside from the "designated driver" an opponent to the creation? Does it actively try to get out of the way of things? Can the creature attempt to hold its ground or is it unnecessary?

First, I assume you are talking about the effect of the spell phantom steed. The murky part of this is the definition of "ally", which has been debated oft times.

The non-official consensus on this is that an "ally" is relative to the spellcaster's view of that creature. Hence, you could not detect hidden enemies in your midst with a spell that only affects "allies". If the spellcaster considers someone an ally, then that's what that creature is.

In this case, the Phantom Steed is an Effect of phantom steed, cast by the spellcaster to aid his/her "allies". So technically the phantom steed is in the friendly camp, even after the death of its creator. The spell's effect doesn't suddenly decide to change allegiances. If it were a Conjuration (Calling) type of spell, then the DM could have the creature re-evaluate its perspective on things according to alignment and such.

Second, there doesn't seem to be a definition for "neutral" or "non-combatant" creatures. Either it's an ally or an opponent, from what I can see in the description of "moving through a square".

But even if there were such a thing as a "neutral" creature, the spell indicates the following:

It does not fight, but animals shun it and refuse to attack it.

The "it does not fight" indicates that it is not able to enter combat. The fighter is not an animal, so he doen't shun it.

Thirdly, if the DM rules that for some reason, the Phantom Steed "completely fills the squares it occupies", then it cannot be moved past, even if it's an ally. If it doesn't completely fill the squares it occupies, then if it's up to three sizes larger than the fighter, he can move past.

Square Occupied by Creature Three Sizes Larger or Smaller: Any creature can move through a square occupied by a creature three size categories larger than it is.
...
Designated Exceptions: Some creatures break the above rules. A creature that completely fills the squares it occupies cannot be moved past, even with the Tumble skill or similar special abilities.

How would I rule this? Between the choice of ally or opponent, I would say the Phantom Steed is an ally. It was cast by a spellcaster that was an ally, and it has no combat capability. Since it's Large, unless the fighter is smaller than Fine, he can get through. So he does, if the Phantom Steed doesn't completely occupy the squares he's trying to pass through.

Andargor

 

[Testament]

Its pretty simple AFAIC. He withdraws, cops the attack of opportunity as he passes through the last square of the Golem's threatened area, and that's all there is to it.

The Phantom Steed was conjured for an ally, cannot fight, and thus is, for all intents and purposes, an ally. It doesn't provide cover, nor does it completely fill the area it occupies. He can move through it.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Its pretty simple AFAIC. He withdraws, cops the attack of opportunity as he passes through the last square of the Golem's threatened area, and that's all there is to it.

The Phantom Steed was conjured for an ally, cannot fight, and thus is, for all intents and purposes, an ally. It doesn't provide cover, nor does it completely fill the area it occupies. He can move through it.

Bingo, that is exactly how I'd rule too.

 

[PrinceZane]

what does quazi-real mean? Is it like real, but under some type of blink effect, or is it real that you can mount/ride it but its really ethereal or what?

Either way, why doesn't the fighter just attempt to bullrush it back, since its allied it steps out of the way and the fighter continues the rest of its charge until stopping?

 

[glass]

Its pretty simple AFAIC. He withdraws, cops the attack of opportunity as he passes through the last square of the Golem's threatened area, and that's all there is to it.

Why bother to withdraw if it's not going to save hime from the AoO? He might as well just move away, leaving himself with the possibility of doing something else after (drinking a potion, firing an arrow, whatever).

But ruleswise I agree, it does seem pretty simple. The phantom steed is just a red herring since it's presence doesn't really make any difference.


glass.

 

[Dryfus]

I agree with testament. He wothdraws and goes through the sqaure occupied by the PS.

 

[cmanos]

OK, lets see if I have this right.

F - Fighter
S - Stone Golem
* - stone golem's rea
P - Phantom Steed
e - empty square

ee*****ee
e*******e
*********
***SSS***
***SSS***eFP ---> route of fighter's retreat
***SSS***
*********
e*******e
ee*****ee

If this is the case the fighter can get away as the steed would be considered a friend and you can move through an ally's space freely. The steed would not provide any cover, but the golem would not get any attacks of opportunity. As the fighter has started the round in an unthreatened space, he may run at 4x his movement in a straight line directly away from the stone giant.

 

[CGoat]

I concur with the movement provokes AoO. Phatom steed is ally but soft cover does not provide cover for melee attacks.

could have taken standard action to do full defense. Then moved with a +4 dodge bonus. Talked to his buddies to get someone else to take the AoO so he could withdraw. But tatics after the fact always happens after the golem thrashing.

So what did the DM decide???