DMs are too easy on their players

+5 Keyboard! · Jul 9, 2007

Asmo said:
Bah! Youngsters! As a DM I used to kill charcters before they even were made!

Asmo

LOL!!!

Shadeydm · Jul 9, 2007

I need a personal mod to sit next to me while I am in front of the computer to bludgeon me repeatedly with a blunt object should I ever start to read one this guys threads again. Between this the two elf threads there are hours of my life I would like to have back.

ThirdWizard · Jul 9, 2007

Asmo said:
Bah! Youngsters! As a DM I used to kill charcters before they even were made!

mmmm Traveller

danzig138 · Jul 9, 2007

Gothmog said:
but 1e/2e seemed like inherently much deadlier systems

Sorry, I don't see it. In the 19 years I've been running games, I've seen so many more characters die under 3/3.5 than I ever saw die in 1/2E. I'm talking like 10, maybe 20x more character deaths. The players have noticed it as well.

If we want to go video game routes, though, 1/2E was like Doom on God Mode, while 3/3.5 seems to be more like Fallout if you never find anything better than a leather jacket and 10mm pistol.

Umbran · Jul 9, 2007

shilsen said:
Back in...

You know, with the level or personal disrespect going on in here, maybe it ought to be "Ban in 5...4...3...".

Please, folks - however much you dislike another poster's approach - treat each other with respect, or show some personal restraint and stay out of the thread. What's been going on in here isn't acceptable. If folks have comments or questions, please take that discussion to e-mail.

shilsen · Jul 9, 2007

Umbran said:
You know, with the level or personal disrespect going on in here, maybe it ought to be "Ban in 5...4...3...".

Please, folks - however much you dislike another poster's approach - treat each other with respect, or show some personal restraint and stay out of the thread. What's been going on in here isn't acceptable. If folks have comments or questions, please take that discussion to e-mail.

Point taken. That was admittedly a whole lot more snarky than I ever get on ENWorld and much more so than was needed. Whatever my opinion about Edena's posts, that's no excuse for picking on him that much. So, just in case Edena is still reading this thread, I apologize and promise to play nice.

Odhanan · Jul 9, 2007

I'm going to try to discuss the OP.

I don't consider myself a Rat-Bastard DM. What I'm trying to do, however, is to create a feel of believability in the games I run.

I do believe that running encounters in the game that would be always in the APL-4 to APL+4 range of CRs creates a feeling of expectations and entitlement for the players, sooner or later.

I believe the characters are adventurers. As such, I think that a part of the believability of the game comes with keeping adventurers on their toes. Sometimes, they'll just mess with the wrong guys at the wrong time. Sometimes, they'll just be out of luck.

What I do, however, is always provide some sort of way in which the game might go on. If for instance they are level 4 and are searching for trouble in front of the Iron Mage, level 20 Wizard, he might just exile them in a prison half-plane for some time instead of just kill them. This is a new challenge. Or the guard, the Imperial Eyes, whatever intervene and arrest the PCs. How do they go out of jail? Or I provide some time to think about what they're doing: they are visiting Ghul's Labyrinth, enter a huge underground complex and spot a gigantic Red Dragon from hundreds of feet away - if they charge the Dragon, they're dead, but they've made the choice and could see that the monster was WAY out of their league. That sort of thing.

I think it's really naive to just pit the PCs against an APL +15 encounter by surprise, with the monster having a clear agenda of killing them, period, and expect the players to be happy about the results. The players being happy about the game is the WHOLE point of playing it in the first place. I just listen to the players and try to keep the game entertaining.

Particle_Man · Jul 9, 2007

Asmo said:
Bah! Youngsters! As a DM I used to kill characters before they even were made!

Asmo

I phone people up at random to tell them their character died, on the off chance that they might become my players some day.

lukelightning · Jul 9, 2007

I see no shortage of PC death. And raising/resurrection isn't much of an issue, since I think everyone in my group is always tossing around a handful of character ideas they'd like to play, so PC death is just an opportunity for them to play another character.