D&D (2024) DM's no longer getting crits on PC's

[CleverNickName]

After a great deal of thought, I have decided that the only way I am okay with removing potential crits from monsters is removing them from the game entirely. I just do not like the pcs getting yet more bennies denied to their foes when they are already pretty darn unlikely to even drop, much less die, in combat.

I agree, this is probably the best solution. My players would not stand for it, though...they all but worship natural 20s at my table.

I'm not kidding. One of my players sings hosannas whenever she rolls a nat20, and another will pour out libations.

 

[the Jester]

If only there was some way to figure out how often -- say, how many times out of 100 or even 20 -- this would matter.

I'm not sure how this relates to my post- why does it matter?

 

[James Gasik]

Maybe critical hits should do something more interesting than more damage, such as debuffing enemies or indirectly buffing allies. This might be a good place to put things that normally you need to be a Battlemaster to accomplish.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I agree, this is probably the best solution. My players would not stand for it, though...they all but worship natural 20s at my table.

Exactly. Which is why I prefer them to be retained on both sides.

 

[MonsterEnvy]

???? Do what, now? Of course the outcome can change: there's success and failure as the options for non-attack rolls.

You just said you won't allow 1s to be auto fails and 20s to be auto successes other than for attack rolls. So when a character rolls a saving throw that requires a 10 and they have a +9 bonus to it they can't fail. And if a another character tries to recall knowledge about an obscure piece of knowledge that a more knowledgeable character failed at with a DC of 22, this character with only a +1 to their score can't succeed.

Maybe critical hits should do something more interesting than more damage, such as debuffing enemies or indirectly buffing allies. This might be a good place to put things that normally you need to be a Battlemaster to accomplish.

They give inspiration now.

 

[CapnZapp]

...for you, perhaps. Not a good game for you.

No, Umbran - we're discussing D&D games here. Don't assume WotC has suddenly taking a liking to Fate or whatever, and decided to turn their ship around in a completely new direction. And more in particular - don't use this assumption to make the discussion about me. Please. That old "for you perhaps" angle is never constructive and always confrontative.

In other words, the fact there exists Fate fans where death can never happen unless the players and GM wants it, is not relevant to a discussion about a fundamentally simulationist game such as D&D.

And I get to state my claim as an important aspect of the game we're actually discussing. If you want WotC to turn D&D into Fate, you're free to do so, but it's definitely not a case where I'm the outlier.

 

[hbarsquared]

Play tested the new Nat20/CRit rules in the first session of my groups Spelljammer campaign last night (lvl 5 Fighter, Rogue, Palladin, and Ranger). Rules played better than I expected, everyone agreed after the session to keep them for the campaign. Rogue used his inspiration from a nat20 attack to get a sneak attack he wouldn’t have otherwise been able to. Paladin actually uses her bonus action smites instead of hoarding them for divine smite Crits.

Highly recommend playing a session with the rules before deciding on them. I was skeptical at first, totally on board for the change now.

As much as I love the discussion (and the civility of everyones' posts!), and hearing all these perspectives and really good points.... This is a PLAYtest. It doesn't matter whether we "like" it or not, or if we think monsters should be equal to PCs, or if we like swinginess or danger or any number of things.

Play it, and see what happens. The very things you think it's taking away might actually do the exact opposite and improve your game!

Or not. But see it in play first and make the call second. That's the feedback WotC wants.

 

[CapnZapp]

Are you referring to fudging during combat, or to throwing supposedly “Deadly” encounters at the party?

I guess what I'm thinking of is this:

If the only way to truly threaten your player (characters) is to throw triple-ultra-deadly encounters at them, then it becomes obvious to any player that tries to keep track that the DM is trying much harder than the game itself to "get them".

If monsters are mostly just big bags of hit points who will wear down heroes only by virtue of having so many hit points, but are generally unable to parry/meet/deflect the heroes more limited or specialized attacks, then you lose verisimilitude. It becomes apparent the monsters don't follow the same rules, the same "laws of physics", the heroes need to follow... but at the same time (perhaps paradoxically) the game perpetuates the idea "heroes are just better than others" since the world around them just aren't equipped to handle their abilities.

To be sure, all D&D (and most rpg) has this to some extent. After all, heroes only need to lose one fight and its over. But still, WotC can and should work harder to maintain the illusion of a level playing field.

 

[Guest 7034872]

You just said you won't allow 1s to be auto fails and 20s to be auto successes other than for attack rolls. So when a character rolls a saving throw that requires a 10 and they have a +9 bonus to it they can't fail. And if a another character tries to recall knowledge about an obscure piece of knowledge that a more knowledgeable character failed at with a DC of 22, this character with only a +1 to their score can't succeed.

Oh, I see what you mean now. Sure, where the DC is low enough, success is guaranteed and where it's high enough, failure is guaranteed. Players don't know that, though, and it's important to the fog of war and how they handle it to make sure I never let on what the actual DCs are, so I'll still let them roll.

 

[Aldarc]

I skipped most of this (no internet) but how do we know that monsters won't crit? The playtest says PCs crit on a 20, as far as I can tell it's silent on what happens for monsters.

If it's true. I'll ignore it, just like I'll ignore auto failure/success for skill checks.

Jeremy Crawford talks about it in the promo video for the playtest.