DnD 3.5 - Valley of the Dead
- Thread starter Myth and Legend
- Start date
Malachei
First Post
The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence.
Thanks for not killing my character for story reasons, btw. I really hate when that happens ("rocks fall...").
... Frake.
did not notice it was running yet
Getting back up to speed: good thing Zinerath can be unresponsive, even to blatant danger... Now, Reading
Addon:
Meh boat!
Oh, I got the it from Open game content ;3
it has three mods, box, boat, and ship.
The latter two can hold 4 and 15 people respectively.
Smite good
It’s a byproduct of his bloodline; I’d trade it for smite lawful in a heartbeat; it can be used on a lot of the evil guys.
That said the two reasons why I might be apt to keep smite good is: it makes good fluff reasons for him to have smite good instead of smite lawful.
-One: It’s an ability granted by his blood, that is both chaotic evil and lawful evil, and while his chaotic nature seems to have the edge, his heritage is by whole evil, and not definitively chaotic or lawful, meaning it can work agent part of it self, or with all of it self, smite good makes the most sense out of all the smites.
-Two: that he is highly and innately capable at dismantling ‘good guys’ adds some tension, gives the PCs and NPCs good reason to be concerned about him going rouge, it also ties into his wining his battle with Ambrose ;3
I would not mind trading it for something else either, but to just toss away an ability that is paid for seems a lil much if that is a possibility you're thinking about. :/
Dex
Well, Fluff, he is not full grown nor has he reached his peak so he is more focused on agility then brawn at this point. I could shift 2 points from it into Con easy enough though :3
did not notice it was running yet
Getting back up to speed: good thing Zinerath can be unresponsive, even to blatant danger... Now, Reading
Addon:
Meh boat!
Oh, I got the it from Open game content ;3
it has three mods, box, boat, and ship.
The latter two can hold 4 and 15 people respectively.
Smite good
It’s a byproduct of his bloodline; I’d trade it for smite lawful in a heartbeat; it can be used on a lot of the evil guys
.That said the two reasons why I might be apt to keep smite good is: it makes good fluff reasons for him to have smite good instead of smite lawful.
-One: It’s an ability granted by his blood, that is both chaotic evil and lawful evil, and while his chaotic nature seems to have the edge, his heritage is by whole evil, and not definitively chaotic or lawful, meaning it can work agent part of it self, or with all of it self, smite good makes the most sense out of all the smites.
-Two: that he is highly and innately capable at dismantling ‘good guys’ adds some tension, gives the PCs and NPCs good reason to be concerned about him going rouge, it also ties into his wining his battle with Ambrose ;3
I would not mind trading it for something else either, but to just toss away an ability that is paid for seems a lil much if that is a possibility you're thinking about. :/
Dex
Well, Fluff, he is not full grown nor has he reached his peak so he is more focused on agility then brawn at this point. I could shift 2 points from it into Con easy enough though :3
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Ok, it's looking like he is going to loses 1 from con and drop it to 14 from 15.
and he is going to pick up frail, so with quick, he basically has 10 con as far as hp gos now ^_^;
so while he had 54 hp, he now has, 78; dropped bloodline, and he now has swash buckling, no sneak attack, a chain and 3 more BaB
;
I think I'm just rebuilding the stat totals now, and found out about something called a belt of battle, meh hehe he!
I might sack his wagon, the mules, and the random items in it though ^_^;
I'll see how he looks in a bit :3
Btw, planing on, after picking his 3th Paragon level back up, having him get battle sorcer and then strait dragon D levels until 20
Addon: Herm... this is very embarrassing; my toon has 5 feats that are not class dependent, should he only have 3? ^^;
... drat...
and he is going to pick up frail, so with quick, he basically has 10 con as far as hp gos now ^_^;
so while he had 54 hp, he now has, 78; dropped bloodline, and he now has swash buckling, no sneak attack, a chain and 3 more BaB
;I think I'm just rebuilding the stat totals now, and found out about something called a belt of battle, meh hehe he!
I might sack his wagon, the mules, and the random items in it though ^_^;
I'll see how he looks in a bit :3
Btw, planing on, after picking his 3th Paragon level back up, having him get battle sorcer and then strait dragon D levels until 20
Addon: Herm... this is very embarrassing; my toon has 5 feats that are not class dependent, should he only have 3? ^^;
... drat...
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Myth and Legend
First Post
Zerith, having 10 Con will get your character (please don't use "toon" this is not WoW ) killed sooner rather than later. I really should help you with tweaking him I suppose. Tell you what, do what you will, I'll see if he's rules legal (feats and all) and then you will have him battle tested. If he doesn't do so good we can rework him together. Here are some pointers I can give you on good DnD mechanics (note, it took me about a year to learn them from scratch. Back when I was starting up I wanted to play vampires, I lost caster levels due to horrible PrCs etc. I know the trap that is one specific build you just want to get). There is also the reverse trap of going too far in optimizing, when suddenly you are leagues above your team mates who get disgruntled or manhandled by enemies you take out with ease.
- Full spellcaster classes are superbly better than anything else. For reference, the Dnd 3.5 tier list.
Here you get the Wizard's Handbook, the Cleric's Handbook, the Druid's Handbook, the Archivist's Handbook, the Sorcerer's Handbook, the Psion's Handbook etc. If there's a caster class, there's a handbook for it written by players who are much better than myself in CharOp (character optimization.)
- If you're not a full spellcaster the next best thing is a ToB class, Factotum, Gish (warrior/mage hybrid done with multiclassing)
- LA races generally suck; Paragon levels that don't advance casting generally suck; Monks, Fighters, Samurai, Truenamers, things that attack with unenchanted natural weapons, things that use sword&shield or don't make use of Power Attack or a ton of attacks per round suck for sure.
- Con is your #2 stat ALWAYS. At level 20 a Fighter with 22 Con will have 250 hp. and a Wizard with 22 Con will have 200 hp. At level 20 50 hp. is nothing - an enemy or monster can drop you with a full attack in one round if it uses PA. However the Wizard will always go first, fly, be invisible, be astrally projected etc. While the fighter will hit things and hope he doesn't get gutted by the first enemy with a bigger stick he sees.
- If you want to build your character for unarmed attacks, go for Unarmed Swordsage and get some of the very limited options of buffing natural attack. Of course, you will never be as good as a Druid who can Wild Shape into a Dire Tiger or something...
- if you want a specific build, go and ask the guys over at Giant in the Playground forums, or ask here even, we can help you optimize it enough to be viable (not necessarily overpowered).
I'm trying to help you because most everyone else will fair better than Zinnerath and when I give the party a level appropriate challenge the weakest link will usually go first or be left in the dust.
Malachei will be joining back btw! I'll work it out with his character and Thok in the IC thread.
) killed sooner rather than later. I really should help you with tweaking him I suppose. Tell you what, do what you will, I'll see if he's rules legal (feats and all) and then you will have him battle tested. If he doesn't do so good we can rework him together. Here are some pointers I can give you on good DnD mechanics (note, it took me about a year to learn them from scratch. Back when I was starting up I wanted to play vampires, I lost caster levels due to horrible PrCs etc. I know the trap that is one specific build you just want to get). There is also the reverse trap of going too far in optimizing, when suddenly you are leagues above your team mates who get disgruntled or manhandled by enemies you take out with ease.- Full spellcaster classes are superbly better than anything else. For reference, the Dnd 3.5 tier list.
Here you get the Wizard's Handbook, the Cleric's Handbook, the Druid's Handbook, the Archivist's Handbook, the Sorcerer's Handbook, the Psion's Handbook etc. If there's a caster class, there's a handbook for it written by players who are much better than myself in CharOp (character optimization.)
- If you're not a full spellcaster the next best thing is a ToB class, Factotum, Gish (warrior/mage hybrid done with multiclassing)
- LA races generally suck; Paragon levels that don't advance casting generally suck; Monks, Fighters, Samurai, Truenamers, things that attack with unenchanted natural weapons, things that use sword&shield or don't make use of Power Attack or a ton of attacks per round suck for sure.
- Con is your #2 stat ALWAYS. At level 20 a Fighter with 22 Con will have 250 hp. and a Wizard with 22 Con will have 200 hp. At level 20 50 hp. is nothing - an enemy or monster can drop you with a full attack in one round if it uses PA. However the Wizard will always go first, fly, be invisible, be astrally projected etc. While the fighter will hit things and hope he doesn't get gutted by the first enemy with a bigger stick he sees.
- If you want to build your character for unarmed attacks, go for Unarmed Swordsage and get some of the very limited options of buffing natural attack. Of course, you will never be as good as a Druid who can Wild Shape into a Dire Tiger or something...
- if you want a specific build, go and ask the guys over at Giant in the Playground forums, or ask here even, we can help you optimize it enough to be viable (not necessarily overpowered).
I'm trying to help you because most everyone else will fair better than Zinnerath and when I give the party a level appropriate challenge the weakest link will usually go first or be left in the dust.
Malachei will be joining back btw! I'll work it out with his character and Thok in the IC thread.
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Malachei
First Post
Myth has pretty much pointed it all out. You could also want to look into Being Bane (Barbarians) and the Fighter's Handbook. Your favorite search engine will find many more.
Let me compare your situation: In a very low OP game, you might want to be able to play a weak build for flavor reasons. But if you go for an expert, or a commoner, you'll still be dead. This isn't a low OP game.
I'm all for flavor, and I usually argue against a lot of optimization strategies that may work by RAW but do not result in a character that makes any sense. Thus, I have great respect for the player who goes for an inferior build based on flavor.
Still, you want to have fun playing, don't you? An epic death can be fun, maybe, but in general, you're joining this campaign to survive, I assume.
1) Don't try too much at once. While I personally avoid over-specialized builds because they can so easily be caught on the wrong foot, you can't try to be good at everything at once.
2) Determine what you want to achieve. Then build for it. Don't go to the supermarket without a shopping list. Go there with the recipe for the food you want to prepare tonight.
3) Some specific points:
- With a 20 Dex (or even an 18 Dex), think about picking up Combat Reflexes. That will allow you up to 6 AoOs.
- Why are you set on the Dragon Disciple?
- You're spending so many levels and feats on racial stuff. I really like that you are flavor-focused, but wouldn't a tiefling in itself support your flavor? If you want to have a transformational development, perhaps you could ask Myth to go Half-Fiend template class with level buy-off?
4) For a melee character (I assume this is your objective), there's about 4 ways to go (not ranked):
- Charger (Leap Attacking Shock Trooper Barbarian and others)
- Lockdown (Tripper, AoO with Stand Still etc., often with Spiked Chain)
- Tome of Battle class
- Gish
While these can be combined to some extent, you should have one as a starting point and priority.
Myth, FYI, the thread at GITP over there:
Lil help on a character - Page 2 - Giant in the Playground Forums
Let me compare your situation: In a very low OP game, you might want to be able to play a weak build for flavor reasons. But if you go for an expert, or a commoner, you'll still be dead. This isn't a low OP game.
I'm all for flavor, and I usually argue against a lot of optimization strategies that may work by RAW but do not result in a character that makes any sense. Thus, I have great respect for the player who goes for an inferior build based on flavor.
Still, you want to have fun playing, don't you? An epic death can be fun, maybe, but in general, you're joining this campaign to survive, I assume.
1) Don't try too much at once. While I personally avoid over-specialized builds because they can so easily be caught on the wrong foot, you can't try to be good at everything at once.
2) Determine what you want to achieve. Then build for it. Don't go to the supermarket without a shopping list. Go there with the recipe for the food you want to prepare tonight.
3) Some specific points:
- With a 20 Dex (or even an 18 Dex), think about picking up Combat Reflexes. That will allow you up to 6 AoOs.
- Why are you set on the Dragon Disciple?
- You're spending so many levels and feats on racial stuff. I really like that you are flavor-focused, but wouldn't a tiefling in itself support your flavor? If you want to have a transformational development, perhaps you could ask Myth to go Half-Fiend template class with level buy-off?
4) For a melee character (I assume this is your objective), there's about 4 ways to go (not ranked):
- Charger (Leap Attacking Shock Trooper Barbarian and others)
- Lockdown (Tripper, AoO with Stand Still etc., often with Spiked Chain)
- Tome of Battle class
- Gish
While these can be combined to some extent, you should have one as a starting point and priority.
Myth, FYI, the thread at GITP over there:
Lil help on a character - Page 2 - Giant in the Playground Forums
Dragonwriter
First Post
There are (naturally) some very useful tips in that thread. And some suggestions I wouldn't suggest touching with a 10-ft. pole. 
(Certain things will make you an insta-target, which you can't handle.)
Setting up as Charge-happy will give serious killing power, but will also make you a target for intelligent foes fairly quickly. Even if you leap over the heads of the minions and attack the caster behind.
Meanwhile, going for an AoO/Control/Lockdown style is a bit more mechanically complex and needs a little help to be at its best (Enlarge Person... which, as a tiefling, doesn't work on you) but is a less overt threat and is great at keeping bad guys away from both you and the rest of the party.
And all the suggestions I'm seeing are also completely unsurprising to me... Part of why I stopped visiting a lot of CharOp places - I got bored seeing largely the same suggestions over and over. I totally understand why (it works, after all), I just got tired of certain things being the constant answer. Wizards, for example.
If you want to look at Class Handbooks, there is also an archive section on the Brilliant Gameologists forum. Just be aware, they don't have anything resembling a language filter. But it's also a lot of heavy-duty optimization advice and they're easy to cherry-pick for ideas.
(Certain things will make you an insta-target, which you can't handle.)Setting up as Charge-happy will give serious killing power, but will also make you a target for intelligent foes fairly quickly. Even if you leap over the heads of the minions and attack the caster behind.
Meanwhile, going for an AoO/Control/Lockdown style is a bit more mechanically complex and needs a little help to be at its best (Enlarge Person... which, as a tiefling, doesn't work on you) but is a less overt threat and is great at keeping bad guys away from both you and the rest of the party.
And all the suggestions I'm seeing are also completely unsurprising to me... Part of why I stopped visiting a lot of CharOp places - I got bored seeing largely the same suggestions over and over. I totally understand why (it works, after all), I just got tired of certain things being the constant answer. Wizards, for example.
If you want to look at Class Handbooks, there is also an archive section on the Brilliant Gameologists forum. Just be aware, they don't have anything resembling a language filter. But it's also a lot of heavy-duty optimization advice and they're easy to cherry-pick for ideas.
Myth and Legend
First Post
Updated the IC.
hmmm, if I want to add the dragonborn template to my character later is it likly there would be an IC pause of two strait days or would I have to just say he allays was one?(if the latter it would have been something that happened after the run in with the lich)
[no distinctly non draconic features have been discribed about him yet and thus far he has been hooded, so there is still time either way :3
Would likly use Aasterinian as the deity used as apposed to bahamut (even though she is 'only' a demigoddess) she just seems to mesh with Zinerath more then Bahamut, given that their both CN and their both fun loving at heart. would not mind using a different god for the ritual though.
__
... is part dragon, part demon, part devil, part human draging the character into toooo many directions? should I look for an other D to replace human with? XD
Plotwise, after the lich feasco, saying Zinerath would want to change would be an undersatment, and Aasterinian is a demigoddess of change, so yesh :3
This said, could just take it for stats
[no distinctly non draconic features have been discribed about him yet and thus far he has been hooded, so there is still time either way :3
Would likly use Aasterinian as the deity used as apposed to bahamut (even though she is 'only' a demigoddess) she just seems to mesh with Zinerath more then Bahamut, given that their both CN and their both fun loving at heart. would not mind using a different god for the ritual though.
__
... is part dragon, part demon, part devil, part human draging the character into toooo many directions? should I look for an other D to replace human with? XD
Plotwise, after the lich feasco, saying Zinerath would want to change would be an undersatment, and Aasterinian is a demigoddess of change, so yesh :3
This said, could just take it for stats
Myth and Legend
First Post
I'll have to check the Races of the Dragon book but there were alignment restrictions to Dragonborn if I remember correctly. Also, it's Bahamut's thing. A Demigod is not very powerful at all (weaker than most level 20 Wizards actually), it can't really grant such things as that template.
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