D&D 5E Dnd Next Pod Cast-info on wildshape and Avenger

gyor

Legend
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Article.aspx?x=dnd/4pod/20131007

It appears that the new Paladin Oath is the Oath of Vengence, basically it focus on Offence the way the Cavalier focuses on defence. Its the update to the 4e Avenger.

Wildshape sounds interesting, you now use the animals actual stat block, so if you take the form of a hound, you have the actual physical stats, senses, attacks, abilities, of a hound. You even gain the hps of a hound, which is seperate from your hps. So if you take the form if the hound you get those hps, if you take damage till those hps are gone, then your revert back into a druid, with what you had for hps before you changed. Its kind of like the animal form provides you with temporary hitpoints whils your in that form. Its smart and I like it.

I am disappointed that the new Oath isn't the Blackguard, but its easy to guess what the Blackguard will be like by comparing this playtest packet with the last one.
 

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Li Shenron

Legend
Can't listen to the pod cast, but anyway this sounds interesting.

The new wildshape idea is a completely new take, it will have interesting consequences.

I definitely want a wildshape that is as simple as possible and has the least amount of calculations, and in this case it seems it has zero, which is perfect.

The HP in wildshape has always been a subject of debate. Wildshape in general has 2 major uses: in-combat, and out-of-combat (exploration, disguise, transportation, etc.). I am a fan of the latter, and I am very glad that the former is a subclass feature rather than common to all Druids. The HP is rarely a problem for out-of-combat uses, but it is a problem for in-combat uses, and in recent editions it was settled that keeping the Druid's HP fixed was a bit more balanced, and required one less calculation. Using the animal's HP also requires no calculation, but there is a chance that the occasional animal is too good a choice (however, the list of possible animals is currently fixed, which should avoid any broken choice).

Assuming the stats of the animal is IMHO better than gaining bonuses, and better than keeping your own physical stats (I assume that mental stats still remain the same). My expectation has always been that a Druid turns into an animal because she wants to take advantage of that animal's characteristics. If there is a Druid who already has a better Dex than every animal on earth, I don't care if she gains nothing from turning into a high-Dex animal, or if she gains less, it just means it's a better tactic for her to turn into a high-Str or high-Con animal instead (tho she still can find other benefits from turning into a cat as a disguise or for the size, or into a cheetah for sheer speed etc.). There is however one issue open: that someone might be tempted to dump all physical stats and just use wildshape all the time.

The real novelty of this version will be that when killed in wildshape, you don't die but instead return to possibly full HP (or not, if you were previously injured). This is not a problem for out-of-combat uses, but remains to be seen if when using wildshape for combat, it might be too good, at least once you can choose animals with lots of HP and you have many daily uses of wildshape. Perhaps we will see an overall decrease in daily uses, at which point IMHO they could safely increase the duration: this way, there will be less in-combat abuse, without nerfing out-of-combat uses (which most of the time rely more on duration rather than number of times per day).

That said, I don't think this will be the final version of wildshape.
 
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captpike

First Post
one of the funner things the wildshape/hp thing means that druids can get down cliffs fast

step 1)turn into housecat

step 2) jump off mile high cliff

step 3) die

step 4) become full hp druid as you wait for your friends to climb down
 

Li Shenron

Legend
one of the funner things the wildshape/hp thing means that druids can get down cliffs fast

step 1)turn into housecat

step 2) jump off mile high cliff

step 3) die

step 4) become full hp druid as you wait for your friends to climb down

What's wrong? Housecats do that all the time :)

But anyway, I think the rules will say that you revert as soon as your "temporary" HP are used up, but you still take the remaining damage! Otherwise it works as an extra life, rather than temp HP.
 


Chris_Nightwing

First Post
The number of hitpoints your wildshape form has should be the threshold to determine when the wildshape is automatically dispelled - the actual damage should still be taken by you, with your hitpoints. A druid with 50HP that turns into a cat with 5HP would revert when they end up at 45HP. If they turn into a bear with 40 HP, the reversion won't happen until they have 10HP left.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
The number of hitpoints your wildshape form has should be the threshold to determine when the wildshape is automatically dispelled - the actual damage should still be taken by you, with your hitpoints. A druid with 50HP that turns into a cat with 5HP would revert when they end up at 45HP. If they turn into a bear with 40 HP, the reversion won't happen until they have 10HP left.

I think it's simpler than that.

The Druid with 50hp (current, not necessarily the max) turns into a cat with 5hp, and as soon as she takes 5hp of damage, she reverts to a Druid with 50hp.

If she takes e.g. 20hp of damage from one source, the first 5hp of damage dispel the cat form, and the remaining 15hp apply, so she ends up in Druid form with 35hp.
 


gyor

Legend
I think it's simpler than that.

The Druid with 50hp (current, not necessarily the max) turns into a cat with 5hp, and as soon as she t akes 5hp of damage, she reverts to a Druid with 50hp.

If she takes e.g. 20hp of damage from one source, the first 5hp of damage dispel the cat form, and the remaining 15hp apply, so she ends up in Druid form with 35hp.

That makes sense.

Anyone else curious about the Avenger?

What are the key features of an Avenger? Oath of Enimity, Armour of Faith, Channel Divinity. Here's my guess at how they'll work this. At level 3 you gain the two Avenger CDs from 4th edition, and you gain Oath of Enimity as a Spell and Armour of Faith as a Spell. I'll think on the rest.
 

DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
Neat, I dig the un-armoued paladin on speed!

Just to note... they talked about wanting to replicate the feeling of the holy avenger / holy slayer archetype, not that the sub-class will exactly match the 4E Avenger. So this new build does not guarantee it will be an armor-less paladin. If I had to guess, it'll still be a plate-wearing class, just that it's focus is more towards punishing the wicked, rather than defending the decent.
 

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