D&D General Do armor proficiencies make sense?

[Garthanos]

I might get behind a feat allowing this, but I hate, hate, hate ways to swap (really concentrate) stat benefits that aren't expensive. I support more MAD, not less. Getting abilities like that for free or part of a class benefit just feed the optimization/power gamers to the cost of generalists and building for breadth.

Interestingly I agree about mad and yet being of a class is an opportunity cost too... say for instance I have an intelligent fighter / rogue (warlord) with history skills - I don't really want to multi-class wizard. In other words if you are supporting mad... you want everyone to get benefit out of it being of a class is also a pay wall.

 

[billd91]

Interestingly I agree about mad and yet being of a class is an opportunity cost too... say for instance I have an intelligent fighter / rogue (warlord) with history skills - I don't really want to multi-class wizard. In other words if you are supporting mad... you want everyone to get benefit out of it being of a class is also a pay wall.

It might be a high cost for a warlord who wants to go without armor to multiclass as wizard. Problem is, for the player who wants to play a wizard - it's no cost at all. It's even a considerable benefit. That's why making it a class benefit is a bad option, particularly if it allows a player to dump another stat in favor of the one they're already concentrating on.

 

[Garthanos]

It might be a high cost for a warlord who wants to go without armor to multiclass as wizard. Problem is, for the player who wants to play a wizard - it's no cost at all.

Given how situational THAT cost is .. you are right. I suppose dropping this out into a separate character design resource makes sense.

I do think there is a couple of paradigms or tropes at play. Some play against our preference for characters with general attributes (ie lots of attributes being valuable and heros enhancing them all for there varied benefits).

• "Winners play to their strengths"
• "There is always more than one way of accomplishing a goal"
• "Heros are winners"
• "Heros are versatile".
• "Game mechanics are vague" - most of my hit points are my luck running out and his is divine favor and hers magical shielding (why is this bound to Con?)

 

[DND_Reborn]

• "Game mechanics are vague" - most of my hit points are my luck running out and his is divine favor and hers magical shielding (why is this bound to Con?)

I suppose the CON is your energy running out as you constantly move to fight, dodge, etc., which is why you recover it with a short or long rest. I am not certain how resting helps you recover your luck, or divine favor, or magical shielding (spells excepted, of course...).

 

[aco175]

I allow an armored cloak for +1AC that I tend to give to mages and other NPCs. Other travelers may have some padded armor while on the road and riding wagons and such. I tend to not specify what it actually is and the players tend to imagine something more like hides to the monsters and more formal padding to humans traveling, even if both only grant a +1.

Nice thing about 5e is that I do not need to justify much on the DM side for monster stats. I can just say that the monster has a 17 AC. If the players ask what they are wearing I can say something like, partial armor and hides.

I can see a better list for PCs, but nothing is needed for monsters.

 

[Garthanos]

I suppose the CON is your energy running out as you constantly move to fight, dodge, etc., which is why you recover it with a short or long rest. I am not certain how resting helps you recover your luck, or divine favor, or magical shielding (spells excepted, of course...).

Yes the fatigue from skilled movement is certainly 1 of the options and an easily pictured one There was a background in 4e with an effect it allowed your base hit points to be derived from a different attribute the Priest might have his based on Wisdom (his connection with divine favor). In 5e it would be like saying your hit points from level 1 to level 4 gained a bonus from your best attribute instead of Con.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Yes the fatigue from skilled movement is certainly 1 of the options and an easily pictured one There was a background in 4e with an effect it allowed your base hit points to be derived from a different attribute the Priest might have his based on Wisdom (his connection with divine favor). In 5e it would be like saying your hit points from level 1 to level 4 gained a bonus from your best attribute instead of Con.

That gives me an interesting idea! What if your hit point bonus comes from one of your ability scores, based on your saving throws for your class and you choose which one.

So, a cleric with saves in Wisdom and Charisma (why Charisma, I have NO idea) would base their bonus hp on one of those scores. With a WIS 16, they could have +3 (from divine favor, insight into foes in battle, etc.).

I don't know, I doubt I would use it, but it is a different idea...

 

[Garthanos]

That gives me an interesting idea! What if your hit point bonus comes from one of your ability scores, based on your saving throws for your class and you choose which one.

One still wants con to have some impact though unless we are collapsing it into strength. The idea of the first 4 levels only sort of buffers your beginning hero a bit more. Additionally in 4e since healing surges were impacted by CON ... and a healing surge could be used to get some skill auto successes there were some value both in recovery even if you made your base hp on say Charisma (god gift). Making the bonus entirely from the Priests wisdom I suppose still leaves potentially a very important save in the dust so maybe not a problem.

 

[Garthanos]

4e requires a big feet chain even starting at fighter to learn to be nimble in Plate it takes 3 or 4 or feats 5 for a Warlord - the character design cost is heavy.

This by the way is part of where I am coming from... lots of design resources to get to Lancelot as he moved in the movie Excalibur or even like some joe demoing armor use on Youtube

 

[Hriston]

Its almost like saying you have to learn how to wear clothes.

Casting penalties do seem to serve certain flavors of fantasy magic (like fae related
magic not working well if you are carrying a significant amount of iron metal armor) but by far not all.

Stealth penalties are usually over blown

And plate armor is in reality less of a movement hindrance than some lighter
armor and easier to wear by someone with lower stamina your mount carries
the weight while traveling so its even better while exploring.

We might include other ways of serving the tropes A barbarians Woad might
provide extra protection and intimidation benefits. A Wizards robes might allow them
to use Intelligence instead of Dex for defense

In 4e even if a fighter could use scale armor there were class features that encouraged using chain armor
if you wanted to shift your character towards a more striker functionality.

ch

It’s a menu of options that you can have your character wear without incurring a penalty for non proficiency. It makes sense to me that a person could have learned to use a type of armor, but not every type of armor, while another person might not have any training with armor. I’m not sure why this would be considered nonsensical.