Do brawlers get their feature bonuses with grabbing weapons?

[Ferghis]

The compendium states:

While you wield a weapon in your primary hand and your off hand is free or grabbing a creature, you gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to Fortitude.

Do you think the sentence parses:
While
- you wield a weapon in your primary hand and your off hand is free or
- grabbing a creature
you gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to Fortitude.

Or do you think it parses:
While you wield a weapon in your primary hand and your off hand is
- free or
- grabbing a creature
you gain a +1 bonus to AC and a +2 bonus to Fortitude.

In other words, do you think the brawler could use, for example, a weapon and shield and gain the feature's defensive benefits if he grabs someone with a sash of ensnarement (no empty hand necessary to grab)?

 

[im_robertb]

I think it's:
(While you wield a weapon in your primary hand) AND (your off hand is free OR grabbing a creature),

 

[Ferghis]

I think it's:
(While you wield a weapon in your primary hand) AND (your off hand is free OR grabbing a creature),

So, a character with a weapon in his or her primary and who is grabbing an enemy gets the bonus? Even if both hands have stuff in them?

 

[DracoSuave]

You get the bonus.

There's no rule stating that the weapon used in a grabbing power must only be used to grab, or that your other hand cannot be used in that grab. If you can switch hands, then it doesn't matter which way the wording goes.

The wording seems to me to have the extra grab clause because you don't have a hand free when you are grabbing, but you don't want the bonus to disappear when you're using the brawler schtick.

 

[OSEZNO]

I've always read it as:

If your hand is free (a la empty) or that hand would otherwise be free except it is grabbing a creature, you get the bonus.

If that hand is otherwise full, let's say with a shield, I would say he does not RAW & RAI get the bonus from brawler - regardless of whether or not he has a creature "grabbed".

Feel free to rule against my opinion.

 

[DracoSuave]

I agree with your opinion fundamentally, but for that to really matter, you're pretty much already giving up your brawler bonuses when you're not grabbing. I'd simply tell the player that his intention is subpar, and dissuade him from going brawler in the first place.

 

[Ferghis]

I agree with your opinion fundamentally, but for that to really matter, you're pretty much already giving up your brawler bonuses when you're not grabbing. I'd simply tell the player that his intention is subpar, and dissuade him from going brawler in the first place.

Thanks! I feel like this is the best reaction a DM could have.

What I'm trying to work up is a proper brawler to high level. My impression (and I haven't verified this) is that I can use a talid to add a magic weapon property (such as, say, a fey slaughter enchantment) to the grab attacks. Because I'm greedy, I also want some of those shield powers. So the heavy shield makes up for the lack of the brawler benefit when not grabbing. But I want to boost Fort to make it hard for people to escape the grab.

 

[DracoSuave]

Thanks! I feel like this is the best reaction a DM could have.

What I'm trying to work up is a proper brawler to high level. My impression (and I haven't verified this) is that I can use a talid to add a magic weapon property (such as, say, a fey slaughter enchantment) to the grab attacks. Because I'm greedy, I also want some of those shield powers. So the heavy shield makes up for the lack of the brawler benefit when not grabbing. But I want to boost Fort to make it hard for people to escape the grab.

There's a weapon or two in the Dark Sun book that count as having a hand free and as shields. Any weapon you use in your main hand will add to your grab attacks IF those attacks have the Weapon keyword. If it's the basic grab action, no weapon can unless the property states it does.

One good combination for a brawler might be spiked gauntlets and a spiked sheild. The gauntlets count as having a hand free for the brawler, and the spiked shield can be enhanced as the light shield you want. The gauntlets can be enhanced as a weapon, which will add to your brawler grab attacks.

 

[Ferghis]

One good combination for a brawler might be spiked gauntlets and a spiked sheild. The gauntlets count as having a hand free for the brawler, and the spiked shield can be enhanced as the light shield you want. The gauntlets can be enhanced as a weapon, which will add to your brawler grab attacks.

That was precisely my original though, but the compendium says spiked gauntlets can only take hands-slot enchantments (which aren't that hot). The talid (a darksun weapon) can also be enchanted as a weapon. And the 16th level winged shield leaves both hands free for grabs (and functions as a ranged weapon).

Another point that confuses me: I think the brawler feature granting +2/tier enhancement to grab attacks is basically a simple intrinsic bonus for those attacks (since Grappling Strike - the main brawler at-will - has no weapon or implement keyword), but why wouldn't they give crit damage as well, then?

 

[OSEZNO]

That was precisely my original though, but the compendium says spiked gauntlets can only take hands-slot enchantments (which aren't that hot). The talid (a darksun weapon) can also be enchanted as a weapon. And the 16th level winged shield leaves both hands free for grabs (and functions as a ranged weapon).

Another point that confuses me: I think the brawler feature granting +2/tier enhancement to grab attacks is basically a simple intrinsic bonus for those attacks (since Grappling Strike - the main brawler at-will - has no weapon or implement keyword), but why wouldn't they give crit damage as well, then?

Grappling Strike does have the weapon keyword.
When it speaks of grab attacks, it means the Grab standard action (Str vs Reflex no weapon mods, no damage, target is immobilized, sustain minor)