D&D 5E Do Classes Have Concrete Meaning In Your Game?

Are Classes Concrete Things In Your Game?


While that's fair, I wasn't really talking about [class X] preconceptions. I was talking only about the "oh, you're an Adventurer..." preconceptions. Which I don't think are unwarranted, most of the time, specifically because "Adventuring" almost always signifies engaging in an awful lot of violence, and acquiring an awful lot of money, over a very short period. (How many campaigns cover more than, say, a 5-year span of in-game time?) Just as becoming a soldier who fights on the front lines changes a person's behavior and the way they equip themselves, so too does becoming an Adventurer who goes spelunking, tomb-raiding, monster-slaying, and evil-wizard-squishing.

All that is pre-supposing that the PCs go spelunking for a living. Personally, I prefer when my (non-'adventuring) PC gets swept up in the tide of events.

The 'party' (another such word!) are 12th level. One is a captain of the kings bodyguard, another a swashbuckling courtier, another a noblewoman who keeps her arcane mastery...private. None of us are 'adventurers'.

We are at the King's Ball, the highlight of the social season. We are in best bib-and-tucker, but that fancy sword at the swashbuckler's hit is a Rapier of Speed, and his mage armour and Bracers of Defence protect him adequately, thank you very much! I wouldn't be at all surprised if the noblewoman's purse holds much more than seems possible, and heaven only knows what she has in there!

Suddenly, the stained-glass ceiling high above the ballroom is shattered, and black-clad ninja-types (no, we cannot assume that they are Shadow Monks!) abseil down. "Protect the King!" shouts the bodyguard PC, and while the courtier draws his slim blade, the noble lady seems to draw a strange staff from...where?

Later, the disheveled crew take refuge in a tavern; ball-gown torn, powdered wig askew. "Ah, adventurers!" exclaims the barkeep.

Bite me.

That said, I do think there are some things that can work on preconceptions. People who wear armor made from furs, for example, will probably be assumed to be from a "less civilized" area and therefore more familiar with the wilderness than the city. People who do wear robes will probably be taken as clerks at the least, and potentially wizards (especially if wizards are a common sight in a particular area). People who wear plate are, quite naturally, going to be seen as soldiers of some kind--probably mercenaries, unless they wear some heraldic or religious symbol. If you've got leather armor, and you take decent care of it, you'll probably be taken for a mercenary of some kind (everyday people don't wear armor of any kind). Somebody's got a great weapon on their back, or a sword at their side, people are going to assume they know how to fight and probably don't have too many qualms about doing so when properly incentivized. Etc.

Exactly! They can make educated guesses based on perceived evidence, but they absolutely cannot infer game-mechanics! Like 'class'.

Now, if a given character intentionally tries to subvert these rules-of-thumb (a Fighter who prefers extra-light leather armor, or wearing armor under slightly baggy clothing, for example), then sure, people will probably draw mistaken conclusions. But if your character gets seen "properly" kitted up, people are going to draw conclusions from that--and I find it difficult to believe that you can quickly and easily switch back and forth between "civilian" and "adventuring" gear unless you explain how and where you're making the change, and what you're doing with the gear you stow/stash.

My first 5E character was a fighter with the Magic Initiate feat. Mage armour meant that he never wore armour. He wore fine clothes, and had prestidigitation to remain looking good. Wearing a rapier is expected of a noble like Lord FlashHeart-'Flash' to his friends-and it's just as well that he was a talented fencer when he chanced across a dragon army attacking a village. He and his new friends saved some lives that day.

What did the governor say when he met us? "Ah, adventurers!"

Bite me.
 

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Later, the disheveled crew take refuge in a tavern; ball-gown torn, powdered wig askew. "Ah, adventurers!" exclaims the barkeep.

Bite me.
<snip>
What did the governor say when he met us? "Ah, adventurers!"

Bite me.

Oooookay, it sounds like this is a pretty raw nerve for you, Arial. All I can really say is that I don't think, even under these circumstances, that it's THAT odd. Wearing a rapier might be normal for a Lord, but slumming it in taverns and fighting dragons doesn't sound like it. But if this has occurred, and deeply offended you as a result, I really don't know what to say. Your characters--and your groups--sound like they're rather unusual for completely avoiding the usual places Adventurers haunt (wilderness hikes, tombs, caves, ruins, and military fortifications) and completely utterly thoroughly trying to avoid even the barest hint of being mercenary-types, instead being among the handful of people with a justification for their wealth, their social status, and their abilities.

The vast majority of characters aren't lords and ladies, courtiers, captains of the monarch's guard, or any other high-ranking official. They lack a convenient explanation for their abilities. They don't have the Magic Initiate feat*, and thus can't have invisible armor. They're not already rich, and thus need to find sources of income (be they jobs undertaken or dungeons delved).

Though...I do kinda have to wonder, what other reason would a noblewoman, a courtier, and the captain of the monarch's guard approach a particular burgh's governor immediately after slaying a dragon?

*Unless this is just the same character mentioned twice, I'm seeing a bit of a pattern here you know. It's a little hard to fault a DM who isn't used to "I can take a feat that lets me have better light armor than money can buy, except it's invisible." That's...pretty much unique to 5e as far as I can tell, and if you're using it frequently, I kinda think it's unfair to get so upset by people not connecting the dots on it. Have you told the DM(s) in question that your character emphatically, intentionally, specifically does NOT "look like an adventurer" and that it would offend him (and certainly seems to offend you) when he is referred to as one?
 
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She's not a monk, in terms of studying at a monastery. She was taught deadly unarmed combat techniques; think special forces/commando/Jason Bourne.

Yep. One of my favourite characters that I never got to play (mostly 'cos I never get to 'just' play) is a half-orc boxer - the kid who was raised in the slums, fell in with a trainer who taught him martial skills and the discipline to go with it (see the plot of basically any boxing movie, ever).

Said character would be a member of the Monk class, but certainly wouldn't be a 'monk' in-setting.
 


In our games, classes are more like generic stereotypes. If someone says their a Fighter, it's going to be understood that they are just that. But they could as well have said "soldier" or any synonym. Someone well-versed in the arcane arts would know the differences between a Wizard, Sorcerer and Warlock, but most ordinary people would just see a magic user, probably refer to them as "mages" or "wizards" no matter the specifics.

Paladins, Bards and Rangers, though, are very much professions of sorts. A bit like how you'd call someone a computer programmer or a teacher. Can be a lot of variety, but the basics are the same.
 


Reading through the read.

When this conversation comes up the Fighter, Rogue and Barbarian tend to be the classes that people say wouldn't self identify.

I feel like in part that's because of D&Ds tradition of " A class without spells? Who cares?"

Magic classes are specific and special, mundane classes are for dummies and generic.
 

They got rid of Elf, Halfling and Dwarf classes long ago, only to emerge again in the OSR. Unless your OSR was adjusted to leave them out.

/blank look
 

I think an interesting way to look at the topic is to look at multiclass characters. How would they be labeled? How would they self identify?

I would find any in world reference to a "wizard-fighter" as odd.
 

I voted option 3, No. Why? Because a character introducing themselves as "Hello, I'm Bob, I'm a fifth level Paladin who can attack twice and I also know how to Lay on Hands! Who wants to adventure with me" is stupid... I hate when a character is role played and introduced as their class. Characters should be whatever their profession or background is. So unless your class equals whatever your profession is (Bard, Ranger, Monk, etc.) then you should go with a more specific explanation.

Paladin = Guardian of ________, Knight of the Temple, etc.
Rogue = Pickpocket, Cutthroat, Con Artist, etc.
Fighter = Mercenary, Sellsword, Gladiator, Knight, etc.

"I'm a former soldier in the King James army. Once I served my contract I became a sellsword and soldier of fortune." sounds a lot better than "I'm a fighter!"
 

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