Do Monsters know about a Fighter's Combat Challenge?

[Stalker0]

This question came up in my group.

We all know that creatures instantly know when a power is being used on them. So if the paladin uses his mark, a creature would know, because that's a power.

However, a fighter's mark is not a power, its a class ability. The DM finally ruled being marked is a condition, and since players would always want to know what conditions were placed on them, that a monster would know its marked and suffer a -2 to attack any other creature other than the fighter.

Fair enough we said, but wait there's more. The fighter's combat challenge is a special bonus against marked targets, the ability to hit them if they attack some one else or if they shift. This is once again a class ability, and is not a standard part of the "marked condition". We couldn't find any clause in the book that would indicate a monster would know what was about to befall them should they shift past the fighter.

So should monsters generally be shifting past the fighter every combat, taking that initial hit, and then wising up...or is there some clause we missed that would indicate a monster knows what the fighter can do?

 

[Eyada]

My group has had the same problem.

For the most part, I've just been winging it as DM. If it seems logical that the creature in question would be familiar with fighting human/dwarf/eladrin/whatever fighters, they do what they can do to avoid taking that first hit. (i.e., hobgoblins, veteran orcs, etc do what they can to avoid it); whereas more simple creatures have just been absorbing the hurt.

We couldn't find anything in the rulebooks to settle the issue.

 

[Verdande]

We couldn't find anything in the rulebooks to settle the issue.

I have a feeling there won't be an official stance on this sort of thing. I would ( and do ) rule it like Eyada. Some creatures know, some figure it out, and some have no idea. For example, a group of minion skeletons kept exploding because the paladin kept marking them, and they are far too stupid to know what he did.

On the other hand, a goblin could easily figure it out, since he can understand now that the ability has been used on him. Of course, his strategy might be ruined, but that's what happens when you live in a world with magical heroes.

A veteran fighter or a creature with above average intelligence certainly knows before the battle starts not to run past the guy in his battle stance with the giant sword, and instead to take him down so he can get to that irritating cleric, and will have formulated a plan to either go out of reach of the guy, or flank them, or whatever to minimize the usefulness of the fighter/paladin's ability.

 

[Yaezakura]

Under "Hit" on page 57:

Whenever you affect a creature with a power, that creature knows exactly what you’ve done to it and what conditions you’ve imposed. For example, when a paladin uses divine challenge against an enemy, the enemy knows that it has been marked and that it will therefore take a penalty to attack rolls and some damage if it attacks anyone aside from the paladin.

So... yes. A monster is always aware of what you've done to it. Whether it's smart enough to ACT on that information is, however, up to your DM.

 

[Danceofmasks]

I doubt a lowbie creature would be aware of the particular implications of ignoring any mark, be it generic, combat challenge, or divine challenge.

Intelligent creatures can watch and learn, though .. soon as the first minion goes splat, they'd be wary of something more (even if they don't know exactly what it is) from that dude's mark.

Now, any creature that can reasonably be expected to have (literally) had adventurers for breakfast in its lifetime has a good chance to have watched and learned about common class features before.

I can't find any rules to that effect, either.

 

[Stalker0]

Under "Hit" on page 57:


So... yes. A monster is always aware of what you've done to it. Whether it's smart enough to ACT on that information is, however, up to your DM.

Combat Challenge isn't a power, its a class ability.

 

[hong]

I don't think it's stretching too far to extend the "monster knows what hit it" principle to apply to class abilities as well as powers. How is a monster supposed to know the difference anyway.

 

[Yaezakura]

Combat Challenge isn't a power, its a class ability.

The rule is clearly supposed to show that monsters are aware of the conditions you've placed on them. Also, while Combat Challenge is a class feature, it's usage is directly dependent on using powers (as even basic attacks are powers). It becomes an extra effect attached to any attack power you use.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Oh how about that.
I retract my statement about divine challenge .. as since it's a power.

 

[Danceofmasks]

The rule is clearly supposed to show that monsters are aware of the conditions you've placed on them. Also, while Combat Challenge is a class feature, it's usage is directly dependent on using powers (as even basic attacks are powers). It becomes an extra effect attached to any attack power you use.

You know, that does make the most sense, especially in light of feats such as press the advantage.