Do nonmagical 1/day abilities damage suspension of disbelief?

[xechnao]

The question fails in its premise. Nonmagical abilities already damage suspension of disbelief regardless of routine schedules. The fact that they can be daily or at will matters little at this point.

 

[Agamon]

Because, in fact you choose what power you are trying to use. I mean are you saying that when trained warriors fight they throw all kinds of wild attacks until one succeeds? And this reasoning still doesn't explain why a Rogue who sneaks into a room full of enemies clustered around a table, hides in the shadows and takes perfect aim, cannot succeed at Blinding Barrage.

The Player chooses what power to use. The character doesn't stand there and think, "Well, what power should I throw at these guys...hmmm. Well, that's a Daily, better hold onto that. Eh, I'll just smack 'em with an at-will, good enough. 'KAY STAND STILL GUYS, I'M SMACKING YA WITH MY AT-WILL!"

And I'm not saying they keep actually attempting to do it, but try and find an opening for it, maybe actually attempt in it once in a while.

Every watched a movie where two guys are sword fighting and one pulls off an awesome move? Did you ever wonder why he doesn't just continuously do that?

 

[Agamon]

Hmmm...the rules?

In previous editions, if you tried to do a maneuver all of the time, it went like:

Rd1
Me: I try to trip my foe.
DM: You fail.
Rd2
Me: I try to trip my foe.
DM: You fail.
RdX+100
Me: I try to trip my foe.
DM: You succeed.

I can try all day, even if I only succeed once.

In 4Ed, once daily maneuvers can only be tried once per day, successful or not. The choice is taken from you.

These are not equivalent designs.

Okay, are we talking about game design now? Or how the moves play out in the game world?

 

[Imaro]

The Player chooses what power to use. The character doesn't stand there and think, "Well, what power should I throw at these guys...hmmm. Well, that's a Daily, better hold onto that. Eh, I'll just smack 'em with an at-will, good enough. 'KAY STAND STILL GUYS, I'M SMACKING YA WITH MY AT-WILL!"

And I'm not saying they keep actually attempting to do it, but try and find an opening for it, maybe actually attempt in it once in a while.

Every watched a movie where two guys are sword fighting and one pulls off an awesome move? Did you ever wonder why he doesn't just continuously do that?

Yeah, but were talking new opponents and optimal conditions...for Blinding Barrage...yet it auto-fails. If they line up along a wall 10 ft away, don't move or try to defend themselves, guess what, it's still an auto-fail if you used it earlier that day. It doesn't make sense.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

Yes, but its worth it.

I remember the first time I heard someone complain about this. They were new to d&d and decided to play a monk, but couldn't stand that he could only use stunning fist x/day.
Don't think I ever heard the same complaint made about rage.


Now in 4e I don't mind the 1/day abilities. The damage to suspension of disbelief is very small and the benefits are worth it.
The reason the damage is so small is that everything that is non-magical in d&d doesn't simulate the real world well to begin with. Daily abilities are just a drop in the bucket.

 

[Nifft]

In 4Ed, once daily maneuvers can only be tried once per day, successful or not. The choice is taken from you.

Incorrect, thanks to the Reliable keyword, which I've only seen on physical attacks so far.

PC: I Brute Strike the ... uh ... brute!
DM: You miss.
PC: Damn it, I'm gonna Brute Strike him again!
DM: You succeed.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Agamon]

Yeah, but were talking new opponents and optimal conditions...for Blinding Barrage...yet it auto-fails. If they line up along a wall 10 ft away, don't move or try to defend themselves, guess what, it's still an auto-fail if you used it earlier that day. It doesn't make sense.

I'd rule that no, it's not. If this is the case, it's no longer an encounter. A rogue can Blinding Barrage that rock over there as much as he wants...until the rock gets up and actively tries to beat on him.

 

[Imaro]

I'd rule that no, it's not. If this is the case, it's no longer an encounter. A rogue can Blinding Barrage that rock over there as much as he wants...until the rock gets up and actively tries to beat on him.

That's a house rule though... I mean I can houserule there's a recharge on them, but that's not what were discussing... as written BB works like that.

 

[Psion]

It's not at the top of the list of blatantly mechanical things that blow my SOD, but it's on the radar.

 

[Agamon]

That's a house rule though... I mean I can houserule there's a recharge on them, but that's not what were discussing... as written BB works like that.

Huh, by the RAW, I can stop players from using powers in certain circumstances but not the other way around? Don't mix up RAW with RAI. The rules as stated assume an attack power will only be used in a fight. But no where does it state that the DM must limit a PCs attempted actions outside of combat. In fact, it states the opposite.